Discussion:
Drusilla's sickness -- would it have been fatal if not cured?
(too old to reply)
Clairel
2006-08-09 18:00:01 UTC
Permalink
I always assumed that when Spike brought Drusilla to Sunnydale hoping
something on the Hellmouth would cure her sickness, the reason he was
so anxious about it was just that he wanted her strong and vigorous
again, instead of weakly languishing for all eternity. I didn't think
there was any kind of time-constraint, such as her sickness getting
worse and eventually killing her. Did anyone think there was real
urgency in Spike's efforts in the first half of season 2 -- I mean
urgency in the sense that Dru would have died if no cure had occurred?

The reason I now think there might have been this kind of urgency is
because I was listening to Spike's exact words in "What's My Line."
This is where Angel is being held captive, and he almost succeeds in
verbally goading Spike into killing him. Spike realizes what Angel is
trying to do and says (emphasis added): "If I kill you now, Dru
doesn't have a chance. IF DRU DIES, your little Rebecca of Sunnyhell
Farm and her mates will be spared her coming-out party."

Well, if you just take the first sentence by itself, it could seem as
if it just meant "Dru doesn't have a chance to regain her strength
without her sire to complete the ritual." It could mean that Dru would
just continue on, weak and sickly, forever. That's what I always took
it to mean.

But I never thought about the implications of the next clause, "IF DRU
DIES." The idea that Dru could continue on forever weak and sickly
would have been better expressed by saying something like "If Dru
doesn't regain her strength."

Presumably that's what the writers would have scripted if that's what
they had meant. But, thinking about the implications of the words "IF
DRU DIES," I have to conclude they were implying that lack of a cure
would have killed Dru.

How long would it have taken? How long had it been since the incident
with the mob in Prague that made Dru weak and sickly to begin with? I
don't know, but it seems as if Spike felt that time was running out.
No wonder he was so worried about Dru's cure that he was willing to
hire the Order of Taraka, if a swift cure meant the difference between
surviving and not surviving for her.

That's a much more urgent thing than just the difference between a
robust existence and a weak, languishing existence. And it puts a
whole new spin on the first half of season 2, to me at least. Has this
ever been discussed before?

Clairel
Elisi
2006-08-09 18:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clairel
I always assumed that when Spike brought Drusilla to Sunnydale hoping
something on the Hellmouth would cure her sickness, the reason he was
so anxious about it was just that he wanted her strong and vigorous
again, instead of weakly languishing for all eternity. I didn't think
there was any kind of time-constraint, such as her sickness getting
worse and eventually killing her. Did anyone think there was real
urgency in Spike's efforts in the first half of season 2 -- I mean
urgency in the sense that Dru would have died if no cure had occurred?
The reason I now think there might have been this kind of urgency is
because I was listening to Spike's exact words in "What's My Line."
This is where Angel is being held captive, and he almost succeeds in
verbally goading Spike into killing him. Spike realizes what Angel is
trying to do and says (emphasis added): "If I kill you now, Dru
doesn't have a chance. IF DRU DIES, your little Rebecca of Sunnyhell
Farm and her mates will be spared her coming-out party."
Well, if you just take the first sentence by itself, it could seem as
if it just meant "Dru doesn't have a chance to regain her strength
without her sire to complete the ritual." It could mean that Dru would
just continue on, weak and sickly, forever. That's what I always took
it to mean.
But I never thought about the implications of the next clause, "IF DRU
DIES." The idea that Dru could continue on forever weak and sickly
would have been better expressed by saying something like "If Dru
doesn't regain her strength."
Presumably that's what the writers would have scripted if that's what
they had meant. But, thinking about the implications of the words "IF
DRU DIES," I have to conclude they were implying that lack of a cure
would have killed Dru.
How long would it have taken? How long had it been since the incident
with the mob in Prague that made Dru weak and sickly to begin with? I
don't know, but it seems as if Spike felt that time was running out.
No wonder he was so worried about Dru's cure that he was willing to
hire the Order of Taraka, if a swift cure meant the difference between
surviving and not surviving for her.
That's a much more urgent thing than just the difference between a
robust existence and a weak, languishing existence. And it puts a
whole new spin on the first half of season 2, to me at least. Has this
ever been discussed before?
Clairel
Yes it's been discussed before. There's even an essay to help fic
writers:

http://www.herringjousting.com/cs/html/101/prague.html
Clairel
2006-08-09 19:33:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Clairel
I always assumed that when Spike brought Drusilla to Sunnydale hoping
something on the Hellmouth would cure her sickness, the reason he was
so anxious about it was just that he wanted her strong and vigorous
again, instead of weakly languishing for all eternity. I didn't think
there was any kind of time-constraint, such as her sickness getting
worse and eventually killing her. Did anyone think there was real
urgency in Spike's efforts in the first half of season 2 -- I mean
urgency in the sense that Dru would have died if no cure had occurred?
The reason I now think there might have been this kind of urgency is
because I was listening to Spike's exact words in "What's My Line."
This is where Angel is being held captive, and he almost succeeds in
verbally goading Spike into killing him. Spike realizes what Angel is
trying to do and says (emphasis added): "If I kill you now, Dru
doesn't have a chance. IF DRU DIES, your little Rebecca of Sunnyhell
Farm and her mates will be spared her coming-out party."
Well, if you just take the first sentence by itself, it could seem as
if it just meant "Dru doesn't have a chance to regain her strength
without her sire to complete the ritual." It could mean that Dru would
just continue on, weak and sickly, forever. That's what I always took
it to mean.
But I never thought about the implications of the next clause, "IF DRU
DIES." The idea that Dru could continue on forever weak and sickly
would have been better expressed by saying something like "If Dru
doesn't regain her strength."
Presumably that's what the writers would have scripted if that's what
they had meant. But, thinking about the implications of the words "IF
DRU DIES," I have to conclude they were implying that lack of a cure
would have killed Dru.
How long would it have taken? How long had it been since the incident
with the mob in Prague that made Dru weak and sickly to begin with? I
don't know, but it seems as if Spike felt that time was running out.
No wonder he was so worried about Dru's cure that he was willing to
hire the Order of Taraka, if a swift cure meant the difference between
surviving and not surviving for her.
That's a much more urgent thing than just the difference between a
robust existence and a weak, languishing existence. And it puts a
whole new spin on the first half of season 2, to me at least. Has this
ever been discussed before?
Clairel
Yes it's been discussed before. There's even an essay to help fic
http://www.herringjousting.com/cs/html/101/prague.html
--Thanks for the link. The essay is interesting, but it kind of
glosses over the precise point I was focusing on. It states,
"Drusilla, we are told when we first meet her, is slowly, painfully
dying." Well, I don't remember any such statement in School Hard --
not explicityly anyway. In School Hard, Spike just says that the
Hellmouth will put the roses back in Dru's cheeks. I took that to mean
vigor, not survival. He doesn't actually say that Sunnydale is the
only hope of fending off death from Dru.

I still think that one line of dialogue in "What's My Line," "IF DRU
DIES," is the only real indication that Drusilla was dying as opposed
to just languishing (for what could have been eternity).

If there's something I've overlooked, please tell me.

Clairel
Don Sample
2006-08-09 19:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clairel
I always assumed that when Spike brought Drusilla to Sunnydale hoping
something on the Hellmouth would cure her sickness, the reason he was
so anxious about it was just that he wanted her strong and vigorous
again, instead of weakly languishing for all eternity. I didn't think
there was any kind of time-constraint, such as her sickness getting
worse and eventually killing her. Did anyone think there was real
urgency in Spike's efforts in the first half of season 2 -- I mean
urgency in the sense that Dru would have died if no cure had occurred?
The reason I now think there might have been this kind of urgency is
because I was listening to Spike's exact words in "What's My Line."
This is where Angel is being held captive, and he almost succeeds in
verbally goading Spike into killing him. Spike realizes what Angel is
trying to do and says (emphasis added): "If I kill you now, Dru
doesn't have a chance. IF DRU DIES, your little Rebecca of Sunnyhell
Farm and her mates will be spared her coming-out party."
Well, if you just take the first sentence by itself, it could seem as
if it just meant "Dru doesn't have a chance to regain her strength
without her sire to complete the ritual." It could mean that Dru would
just continue on, weak and sickly, forever. That's what I always took
it to mean.
But I never thought about the implications of the next clause, "IF DRU
DIES." The idea that Dru could continue on forever weak and sickly
would have been better expressed by saying something like "If Dru
doesn't regain her strength."
Presumably that's what the writers would have scripted if that's what
they had meant. But, thinking about the implications of the words "IF
DRU DIES," I have to conclude they were implying that lack of a cure
would have killed Dru.
How long would it have taken? How long had it been since the incident
with the mob in Prague that made Dru weak and sickly to begin with? I
don't know, but it seems as if Spike felt that time was running out.
No wonder he was so worried about Dru's cure that he was willing to
hire the Order of Taraka, if a swift cure meant the difference between
surviving and not surviving for her.
That's a much more urgent thing than just the difference between a
robust existence and a weak, languishing existence. And it puts a
whole new spin on the first half of season 2, to me at least. Has this
ever been discussed before?
Clairel
"If Dru dies."
"If Dru doesn't regain her strength."

The second sentence is three times longer than the first. That alone
might be enough reason for Spike to prefer the shorter version, and he
might have been over-dramatizing Dru's condition for effect. And there
are more ways that Dru could die than simply wasting away. In her
condition she was easy prey to anyone or anything that might want to
kill her.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Carin
2006-08-11 06:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clairel
I always assumed that when Spike brought Drusilla to Sunnydale hoping
something on the Hellmouth would cure her sickness, the reason he was
so anxious about it was just that he wanted her strong and vigorous
again, instead of weakly languishing for all eternity. I didn't think
there was any kind of time-constraint, such as her sickness getting
worse and eventually killing her. Did anyone think there was real
urgency in Spike's efforts in the first half of season 2 -- I mean
urgency in the sense that Dru would have died if no cure had occurred?
The reason I now think there might have been this kind of urgency is
because I was listening to Spike's exact words in "What's My Line."
This is where Angel is being held captive, and he almost succeeds in
verbally goading Spike into killing him. Spike realizes what Angel is
trying to do and says (emphasis added): "If I kill you now, Dru
doesn't have a chance. IF DRU DIES, your little Rebecca of Sunnyhell
Farm and her mates will be spared her coming-out party."
Well, if you just take the first sentence by itself, it could seem as
if it just meant "Dru doesn't have a chance to regain her strength
without her sire to complete the ritual." It could mean that Dru would
just continue on, weak and sickly, forever. That's what I always took
it to mean.
But I never thought about the implications of the next clause, "IF DRU
DIES." The idea that Dru could continue on forever weak and sickly
would have been better expressed by saying something like "If Dru
doesn't regain her strength."
Presumably that's what the writers would have scripted if that's what
they had meant. But, thinking about the implications of the words "IF
DRU DIES," I have to conclude they were implying that lack of a cure
would have killed Dru.
How long would it have taken? How long had it been since the incident
with the mob in Prague that made Dru weak and sickly to begin with? I
don't know, but it seems as if Spike felt that time was running out.
No wonder he was so worried about Dru's cure that he was willing to
hire the Order of Taraka, if a swift cure meant the difference between
surviving and not surviving for her.
That's a much more urgent thing than just the difference between a
robust existence and a weak, languishing existence. And it puts a
whole new spin on the first half of season 2, to me at least. Has this
ever been discussed before?
Clairel
I just consider stuff like that to be a plot hole (which is really what it
is.) Sometimes the writers really are just not thinking.
Slayah
2006-08-11 15:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carin
I just consider stuff like that to be a plot hole (which is really
what it is.) Sometimes the writers really are just not thinking.
That's an awfully big Grand Canyon of a plot hole, if that's the case! I
really can't imagine at least someone on the writing staff or Joss to have
let that slide. I can only conclude that it was deliberate.
Clairel
2006-08-11 20:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slayah
Post by Carin
I just consider stuff like that to be a plot hole (which is really
what it is.) Sometimes the writers really are just not thinking.
That's an awfully big Grand Canyon of a plot hole, if that's the case! I
really can't imagine at least someone on the writing staff or Joss to have
let that slide. I can only conclude that it was deliberate.
--It's not so much a hole as it is an ambiguity. Other than the words
"If Dru dies," it just wasn't made clear if her sickness was killing
her, or just keeping her permanently weak.

Somebody pointed out on another forum that maybe Spike and Dru
themselves didn't knwo for sure, but Spike was just worried that the
sickness *might* kill Dru. As long as Spike believed she would die or
might die, it doesn't really matter what the reality was -- what I'm
interested in is Spike's motivation and sense of urgency back in season
2.

Clairel
Joseph S. Powell, III
2006-08-28 19:35:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clairel
Post by Slayah
Post by Carin
I just consider stuff like that to be a plot hole (which is really
what it is.) Sometimes the writers really are just not thinking.
That's an awfully big Grand Canyon of a plot hole, if that's the case! I
really can't imagine at least someone on the writing staff or Joss to have
let that slide. I can only conclude that it was deliberate.
--It's not so much a hole as it is an ambiguity. Other than the words
"If Dru dies," it just wasn't made clear if her sickness was killing
her, or just keeping her permanently weak.
Somebody pointed out on another forum that maybe Spike and Dru
themselves didn't knwo for sure, but Spike was just worried that the
sickness *might* kill Dru. As long as Spike believed she would die or
might die, it doesn't really matter what the reality was -- what I'm
interested in is Spike's motivation and sense of urgency back in season
2.
Clairel
Dru was physically weakened due to having been attacked by a mob of humans
in Prague....just like Spike was in that wheelchair from being hit on the
head with that thingie Buffy slung at him & then having that pipe organ fall
on him....
It was a physical beating in both cases....but in Dru's case it must have
been worse than Spikes...
I'm also not quite sure when Dru was attacked, but it had to be definately
sometime after Spike & Dru's visit to Italy in the fifties (Chaio, Chaio..),
and likely even after the late 70's (when Spike killed Nikki in NYC).....
Clairel
2006-08-31 23:50:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph S. Powell, III
Post by Clairel
Post by Slayah
Post by Carin
I just consider stuff like that to be a plot hole (which is really
what it is.) Sometimes the writers really are just not thinking.
That's an awfully big Grand Canyon of a plot hole, if that's the case! I
really can't imagine at least someone on the writing staff or Joss to
have
Post by Clairel
Post by Slayah
let that slide. I can only conclude that it was deliberate.
--It's not so much a hole as it is an ambiguity. Other than the words
"If Dru dies," it just wasn't made clear if her sickness was killing
her, or just keeping her permanently weak.
Somebody pointed out on another forum that maybe Spike and Dru
themselves didn't knwo for sure, but Spike was just worried that the
sickness *might* kill Dru. As long as Spike believed she would die or
might die, it doesn't really matter what the reality was -- what I'm
interested in is Spike's motivation and sense of urgency back in season
2.
Clairel
Dru was physically weakened due to having been attacked by a mob of humans
in Prague....just like Spike was in that wheelchair from being hit on the
head with that thingie Buffy slung at him & then having that pipe organ fall
on him....
--No, not "just like." Spike recovered on his own, though it took
time. Drusilla, presumably, would never have gotten back up to
strength, no matter how much time she was given. In fact, she might
have been slowly dying (though how that can happen to a vampire beats
me: would she be there one second, and be dust the next second, yet
without staking or decapitation?).

When you look at all Spike and Angel have been through, what with
torture sessions, ordeals, falling off of high buildings, etc., it's a
wonder that Drusilla didn't bounce back from whatever the Prague mob
did to her, just as quickly as Angel and Spike bounced back from
various major injuries, and without external help from magic. But what
the heck, Dru's sickness was an arbitrary plot device to give Spike a
special motivation for his actions in the first half of season 2; just
as Spike being wheelchair-bound in the second half of season 2 was also
an arbitrary plot device. Really, what was worse about falling
underneath the church organ than all of the other falls he's taken and
recovered from immediately. (Yeah, it hit his spine in some flukey way
whereas the other falls didn't -- you can always find
rationalizations.)
Post by Joseph S. Powell, III
It was a physical beating in both cases....but in Dru's case it must have
been worse than Spikes...
I'm also not quite sure when Dru was attacked, but it had to be definately
sometime after Spike & Dru's visit to Italy in the fifties (Chaio, Chaio..),
and likely even after the late 70's (when Spike killed Nikki in NYC).....
--Well, I should think so. How long would Spike have tolerated the
situation without finding a way to end it? I figure Dru was injured by
the Prague mob in 1997, or 1996 at earliest.

Clairel

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