Discussion:
AOQ Review 6-21: "Grave"
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Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-01 05:17:18 UTC
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A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.


BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner

As I pull myself out of the pit of staring at the computer screen,
facing the bright sunrise of taking a break from posting reviews, I'm
not quite sure if things should be this way. But they seem right.
"Grave" is unexpected for me; it didn't seem like the direction
things were going, although it makes some sense in retrospect. The
"obvious" way things were going was towards something like "Two
To Go," with an ending five minutes later. That was the standard big
confrontation, so the story was now free to go somewhere else for the
second half of the finale. Between Buffy saving herself but not really
the world, Willow's recovery, and the open-endedness, I'm not quite
sure yet what to make of it all. All of these things threw me a
little, and I think I'm coming to terms with them now. But not sure.

The one thing I can be sure of is the profound disappointment that came
from seeing that the DVD included a commentary from David and James
Contner, and realizing that this would be the first BTVS finale not to
be written and directed by the series creator, who was I guess off
creating another series. It lets me understand some of the abandonment
that fans must have felt at the time. Granted, the rest of the staff
have handled themselves very well this year, coming up with the second
or third best season of _Buffy_ thus far. And granted, I wouldn't
trade _Firefly_ for anything else on TV, not even more Joss involvement
in his other shows. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, a
little bit. It caused me to panic and flip through the episode book
just to reassure myself that Joss would at least still write the series
finale.

What's Giles been up to? I miss the glasses; wonder what's up
there? Hopefully it's a magic thing rather than an
alternative-corrective thing, so that he can get back to giving a good
name to bespectacled heroes in future appearances. The intermittent
magic fights between him and Willow tend to crackle, and it's an
impressively natural reincorporation of a character who's spent
twelve consecutive episodes off-screen. The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why. Maybe seeing Buffy
talk about sleeping with Spike with only a minimum of shame or
hesitation, followed by the laughter, feels healing, maybe more so than
the end of the episode. As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.

Speaking of that, one place in which the execution falls somewhat flat
is after Willow takes a hit off Giles's power. Hannigan's delivery
on "whoa, head rush" is (appropriately) classic Willow, but the
rest of the scene is forced to have her try to tell and not show so the
audience can follow what she's going through. And since she's
tripping or whatever, she has to do... it... one... word... at...
a... time... while the director hooks the camera up to a vibrator. I
can tell right now that I'm going to find this part excruciating
during re-watches. The idea behind it does raise a few interesting
points. One thing that seems to be going on in the background is magic
as almost a living thing with inherent qualities. Or, more accurately,
different types of magic bring out different aspects of what was inside
the spellcaster all along. I noticed that Willow didn't entirely go
from Dark to Evil until after absorbing Rack last episode. This time,
as soon as she takes in the powers that Giles has borrowed, she's all
about compassion for others' pain, and trying to "fix" it.
Willow trying to use magic to make things better always works out so
well, too. Actually the fact that she doesn't end up killing any
innocent people means that things worked out better than anyone had any
right to hope, so...

Things I've learned: the only way to dodge a glowing ball of fire is
to have someone shove you a few inches. Otherwise, you're powerless
to escape. That lesson certainly ought to be inapplicable elsewhere in
life.

Nothing much to say about it, but I like the Xander/Dawn exchange, as
tempers fray and people talk about the things that they kinda wanted to
reveal anyway.

The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way. Another example is the way the two of them start
to get attacked, then things pause long enough for Buffy to very
deliberately ask for help in a mini-speech, and then the monsters are
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay. Also, the
rising-from-the-grave imagery could stand a little less bluntness.

It is odd seeing Buffy not be the final hero of the day. Since S6 has
been the most insular of all so far, maybe it's to be expected that
the internal issues would be more important for her. Or maybe it's
just time for someone else to step up. Xander certainly does that,
with that kind of insane fearlessness that only he can manage. I think
Brendon is as impressive as his character is on his half of the scene,
totally convincing me that Xander is capable of this kind of
unflinching emotion. He's the heart of the group, and it's easy to
forget that role given the rarity of those special times when his
physical courage matches with knowing when to use it - not as
outlandish as Anya would maybe like to think, though. The second of
the three strange things I mentioned in the intro is that Willow could
in fact be stopped or redeemed this way. Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year, and given that any
scene like this is going to pale next to FxF... well, I can see why
some viewers might have a problem with it, or think the show goes too
easy on her, or is too melodramatic. That's because I kinda feel like
I "should" too, but I don't. I don't know if it's the power
of context, writing, or acting, but this part has the sheer force of
something on its side. One has to wonder how strong her "spark of
humanity" was: it does seem either convenient or not-coincidental
that she would suggest that "you're going to stop me by telling me
you love me?" Kinda handing Xander the key to do exactly that.

Say what you will about Xander as a "best friend," but he seems to
take attempts to kill him remarkably well, as a general rule.

Meanwhile, Buffy also breaks down in (happier) tears and asks Dawn to
forgive her for not putting together the theme of Season Six until the
finale. I dunno. The distinction between living in the world and
avoiding it is worth making, and in principle I'm in favor of it, but
the scene seems overwrought. Why do these epiphanies always have to be
so talky and full of wrenching sobs and hugs and such? I'm naturally
more likely to buy into tragedy than triumph, just cuz I'm all
cynical and stuff. But I do think this plays out awkwardly, especially
on the heels of the equally melodramatic but much-fewer-wasted-words
X/W exchange. This makes it hard for me to properly appreciate the
Montage O' Healing And Sunrise.

Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect. I really was expecting his story
to cross paths with the others again. That's part of what I mean
when I talk about the open-ended finale, more so than the end of any
other season (even "Primeval"/"Restless," taken together,
brought us to more of a stopping point). Buffy may have finally
emerged from Hell, but Willow is not exactly Normal Again, Anya still
has to figure out where she wants to be in the world, and Spike clearly
has a lot of story left to tell. I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.

See y'all in a little bit. And closing things on a flippant note,
who's this Tahr-rah person that Giles keeps going on about?


So...

One-sentence summary: Seems to mostly work, but it's hard to be sure;
my rating is tentative.

AOQ rating: Good

[Season Six ratings:
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
2) "After Life" - Good
3) "Flooded" - Decent
4) "Life Serial" - Good
5) "All The Way" - Good
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
8) "Smashed" - Decent
9) "Wrecked" - Good
10) "Gone" - Decent
11) "Doublemeat Palace" - Decent
12) "Dead Things" - Good
13) "Older And Far Away" - Good
14) "As You Were" - Decent
15) "Hell's Bells" - Weak
16) "Normal Again" - Excellent
17) "Entropy" - Decent
18) "Seeing Red" - Good
19) "Villains" - Good
20) "Two To Go" - Excellent
21) "Grave" - Good]


BY THE NUMBERS
[Note: "Bargaining" is counted twice]

_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ Season Six

Bad - 0
Weak - 1
Decent - 8
Good - 10
Excellent - 3

Average rating: 3.68 ["Good minus"] (Decent=3)
Quality Percentage [% of episodes ranking Good or higher]: 62%


_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ so far

Bad - 2
Weak - 10
Decent - 39
Good - 51
Excellent - 20

Ratings by season:
S1: Mean = 3.67, 50% quality
S2: Mean = 3.55, 64% quality
S3: Mean= 3.86, 68% quality
S4: Mean= 3.5, 55% quality
S5: Mean = 3.55, 50% quality
S6: Mean = 3.68, 62% quality
Series so far: Mean = 3.63, 58% quality
Rowan Hawthorn
2006-09-01 05:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Speaking of that, one place in which the execution falls somewhat flat
is after Willow takes a hit off Giles's power. Hannigan's delivery
on "whoa, head rush" is (appropriately) classic Willow, but the
rest of the scene is forced to have her try to tell and not show so the
audience can follow what she's going through. And since she's
tripping or whatever, she has to do... it... one... word... at...
a... time... while the director hooks the camera up to a vibrator. I
can tell right now that I'm going to find this part excruciating
during re-watches.
I kinda got the feeling that AH wasn't entirely comfortable with this
scene, because it certainly doesn't have the "naturalness" of her
delivery on so many other offbeat Willowisms.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The idea behind it does raise a few interesting
points. One thing that seems to be going on in the background is magic
as almost a living thing with inherent qualities. Or, more accurately,
different types of magic bring out different aspects of what was inside
the spellcaster all along.
Ye-es....?

It also appears to amplify the negative aspects; the more powered-up
Willow gets, the less inhibitions she has. Not a good thing for someone
with her basic issues.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
I noticed that Willow didn't entirely go
from Dark to Evil until after absorbing Rack last episode. This time,
as soon as she takes in the powers that Giles has borrowed, she's all
about compassion for others' pain, and trying to "fix" it.
Willow trying to use magic to make things better always works out so
well, too. Actually the fact that she doesn't end up killing any
innocent people means that things worked out better than anyone had any
right to hope, so...
Things I've learned: the only way to dodge a glowing ball of fire is
to have someone shove you a few inches. Otherwise, you're powerless
to escape. That lesson certainly ought to be inapplicable elsewhere in
life.
Well, these days, you never know...
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
See y'all in a little bit. And closing things on a flippant note,
who's this Tahr-rah person that Giles keeps going on about?
Tahr-rah Rahboomdiay? (Sorry... little flashback, there...)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
One-sentence summary: Seems to mostly work, but it's hard to be sure;
my rating is tentative.
AOQ rating: Good
Mine too, because of a couple of shaky sequences that didn't quite get
where they were going, even if the overall episode did.
--
Rowan Hawthorn

"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
(Harmony) Watcher
2006-09-01 06:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
<snip>
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way.
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-01 12:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
<snip>
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way.
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given the
chance.

-- Ken from Chicago
Rowan Hawthorn
2006-09-01 14:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
<snip>
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way.
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given the
chance.
-- Ken from Chicago
Bs pbhefr jr nyfb frr yngre ba gung Qnja fcraqf n ybg bs ure nybar gvzr
"cynlvat Fynlre." V qbhog fur jnvgrq hagvy Frnfba 7 gb fgneg...
--
Rowan Hawthorn

"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
vague disclaimer
2006-09-01 16:07:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given the
chance.
-- Ken from Chicago
Bs pbhefr jr nyfb frr yngre ba gung Qnja fcraqf n ybg bs ure nybar gvzr
"cynlvat Fynlre." V qbhog fur jnvgrq hagvy Frnfba 7 gb fgneg...
And it was noted as long ago as All The Way that she was a pretty
capable and resourceful scrapper.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Rowan Hawthorn
2006-09-01 18:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given the
chance.
-- Ken from Chicago
Bs pbhefr jr nyfb frr yngre ba gung Qnja fcraqf n ybg bs ure nybar gvzr
"cynlvat Fynlre." V qbhog fur jnvgrq hagvy Frnfba 7 gb fgneg...
And it was noted as long ago as All The Way that she was a pretty
capable and resourceful scrapper.
Damn straight - she's a hair-puller...
--
Rowan Hawthorn

"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
peachy ashie passion
2006-09-01 19:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given
the chance.
-- Ken from Chicago
Bs pbhefr jr nyfb frr yngre ba gung Qnja fcraqf n ybg bs ure nybar
gvzr "cynlvat Fynlre." V qbhog fur jnvgrq hagvy Frnfba 7 gb fgneg...
And it was noted as long ago as All The Way that she was a pretty
capable and resourceful scrapper.
Damn straight - she's a hair-puller...
*whimper*
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 00:05:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by Rowan Hawthorn
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Dawn had no martial arts training that we know of from her sister or from
anyone else, but she could swing a mean sword. Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
--
==Harmony Watcher==
They made Dawn from Buffy. Natch she'd have the ability--if given the
chance.
-- Ken from Chicago
Bs pbhefr jr nyfb frr yngre ba gung Qnja fcraqf n ybg bs ure nybar gvzr
"cynlvat Fynlre." V qbhog fur jnvgrq hagvy Frnfba 7 gb fgneg...
And it was noted as long ago as All The Way that she was a pretty capable
and resourceful scrapper.
Damn straight - she's a hair-puller...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
That's not much in Sunnydale or for the kid sis of the Slayer.

-- Ken from Chicago
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 00:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
Touché.

-AOQ
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 01:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
Touché.

-AOQ


I have a theory.
She's a bunny.
A dancing bunny-
No, something isn't right, hare.

-- Ken from Chicago
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 02:03:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
Touché.
-AOQ
I have a theory.
She's a bunny.
A dancing bunny-
No, something isn't right, hare.
;-)

-AOQ
Malsperanza
2006-09-02 03:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
Touché.
-AOQ
I have a theory.
She's a bunny.
A dancing bunny-
No, something isn't right, hare.
-- Ken from Chicago
<333333!!!!!!!!

~Mal
(Harmony) Watcher
2006-09-02 07:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by (Harmony) Watcher
Are you sure that Dawn was
"not a supernatural creature"? We're not telling, :|
Touché.
It wasn't fencing. It was a real sword, :p

Great balls of green energy which can swing a mean sword ...

If it were an anime story, the Slayer could pack her bags and retire, I
think.

--
==Harmony Watcher==

mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-01 06:52:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
i guess that answers if anybody ever teleported across the atlantic
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
twelve consecutive episodes off-screen. The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why. Maybe seeing Buffy
its what buffy needed
rather tell her what she already knew that she had screwed up
he was able instead to pull her out of the anger and despair and misery
and recognize the absurdity of this part of her life
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay. Also, the
rising-from-the-grave imagery could stand a little less bluntness.
that finishes buffys recover
almost a year early she nearly had scaffolding fall on her
and she clawed her way out of her grave into hell
alone

now she had to dodge a sword
and she clawed her way out of her grave into a garden
with dawn
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
totally convincing me that Xander is capable of this kind of
unflinching emotion. He's the heart of the group, and it's easy to
forget that role given the rarity of those special times when his
physical courage matches with knowing when to use it - not as
outlandish as Anya would maybe like to think, though. The second of
if anya had had her way there would be xander to stop willow
and the world wouldve ended
anya has some processing to do on that

anya exhibits a rather typical morality
though she would not express it as good and evil
its not about objective moral code
because the good and evil sides do the same things
rather one side is defined as good
and one side is defined as evil
and what is evil is always evil
and what is good is always good

so now anya has to confront her own bipartite moralism
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
hes been a souled human before
someone who loved cecily and wrote poetry and doted on his mother

now he has a soul again
for all his struggle to be the man buffy could love she never would
becuase he was a dead soulless thing
now he is dead soulful man

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two
Elisi
2006-09-01 07:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."

That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.

See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.

But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?

Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.

See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.

Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.

But to do that, to actually dare to do that, still takes my breath
away.

I don't _like_ the attempted rape, but it did something spectacular -
it made Spike see the monster in himself (for the first time). And then
he chose to become a man. Or to quote Giles (from 'Beauty and the
Beasts'):

Giles: In my experience, there are... two types of monster. The first,
uh, can be redeemed, or more importantly, wants to be redeemed.
Buffy: And the second type?
Giles: The second is void of humanity, cannot respond to reason... or
love.

Spike has proved himself redeemable. The question - _will_ he be
redeemed?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
That's part of what I mean
when I talk about the open-ended finale, more so than the end of any
other season (even "Primeval"/"Restless," taken together,
brought us to more of a stopping point). Buffy may have finally
emerged from Hell, but Willow is not exactly Normal Again, Anya still
has to figure out where she wants to be in the world, and Spike clearly
has a lot of story left to tell. I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.
Well S6 and S7 can't really be taken seperately - as you noted most of
the characters seem to be halfway through their arcs. Although S7 is
very different from S6.


Will be back later with thoughts on themes and stuff. Right now I have
children to get up!
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-01 12:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."
That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.
See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.
But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?
Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.
See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.
Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.
But to do that, to actually dare to do that, still takes my breath
away.
I don't _like_ the attempted rape, but it did something spectacular -
it made Spike see the monster in himself (for the first time). And then
he chose to become a man. Or to quote Giles (from 'Beauty and the
Giles: In my experience, there are... two types of monster. The first,
uh, can be redeemed, or more importantly, wants to be redeemed.
Buffy: And the second type?
Giles: The second is void of humanity, cannot respond to reason... or
love.
Spike has proved himself redeemable. The question - _will_ he be
redeemed?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
That's part of what I mean
when I talk about the open-ended finale, more so than the end of any
other season (even "Primeval"/"Restless," taken together,
brought us to more of a stopping point). Buffy may have finally
emerged from Hell, but Willow is not exactly Normal Again, Anya still
has to figure out where she wants to be in the world, and Spike clearly
has a lot of story left to tell. I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.
Well S6 and S7 can't really be taken seperately - as you noted most of
the characters seem to be halfway through their arcs. Although S7 is
very different from S6.
Will be back later with thoughts on themes and stuff. Right now I have
children to get up!
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.

Oh and the irony of SR, the "consolation prize" of the AR scene, was that it
was the first time Spike hit rock bottom so hard he was far more likely to
seek redemption--at the one time he's least deserving of it--as fulfilled in
"Grave".

Appropos of a season of addictions.

-- Ken from Chicago
Elisi
2006-09-01 13:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_ soulless
redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was a monster and
wanting to change. And yet he never needed redeeming when he was
soulless - he was evil and did what evil creatures do. But now that he
has a soul, he'll _have_ to be redeemed, because suddenly he's
accountable for what he did... it's the most wonderful catch-22! :)
Post by Ken from Chicago
Oh and the irony of SR, the "consolation prize" of the AR scene, was that it
was the first time Spike hit rock bottom so hard he was far more likely to
seek redemption--at the one time he's least deserving of it--as fulfilled in
"Grave".
Appropos of a season of addictions.
I love my show.
Don Sample
2006-09-01 15:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_ soulless
redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was a monster and
wanting to change.
No that wasn't redemption. He wanted to get the soul so he could get
the girl. He might very well continue to be an evil creature, even with
his soul. Lots of souled people are evil: Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy,
George Bush.
Post by Elisi
And yet he never needed redeeming when he was
soulless - he was evil and did what evil creatures do. But now that he
has a soul, he'll _have_ to be redeemed, because suddenly he's
accountable for what he did... it's the most wonderful catch-22! :)
There is no _have_ about it. He can be redeemed, but he might not be.

(And it's not a Catch 22 anyway. A Catch 22 comes out the same way, no
matter what you do. Irredeemably evil before, irredeemably evil after,
would be a Catch 22.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
l***@gmail.com
2006-09-01 16:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_ soulless
redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was a monster and
wanting to change.
No that wasn't redemption. He wanted to get the soul so he could get
the girl. He might very well continue to be an evil creature, even with
his soul. Lots of souled people are evil: Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy,
George Bush.
Willow.

And even if he did just do it for the sake of a girl, he still wanted
to change, making it soulless redemption...
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
And yet he never needed redeeming when he was
soulless - he was evil and did what evil creatures do. But now that he
has a soul, he'll _have_ to be redeemed, because suddenly he's
accountable for what he did... it's the most wonderful catch-22! :)
There is no _have_ about it. He can be redeemed, but he might not be.
Just like Willow might be saved, but could just as easily fall back of
the wagon and try to destroy the world again.

Lore
Post by Don Sample
(And it's not a Catch 22 anyway. A Catch 22 comes out the same way, no
matter what you do. Irredeemably evil before, irredeemably evil after,
would be a Catch 22.)
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Don Sample
2006-09-01 16:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that
year, tho kinda awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's
redemption WITHOUT a soul, to have him get redemption by
getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued he could never
get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was like
kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn
the argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_
soulless redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was
a monster and wanting to change.
No that wasn't redemption. He wanted to get the soul so he could
get the girl. He might very well continue to be an evil creature,
even with his soul. Lots of souled people are evil: Charlie
Manson, Ted Bundy, George Bush.
Willow.
And even if he did just do it for the sake of a girl, he still wanted
to change, making it soulless redemption...
Change alone isn't enough. He would have to actually want to make
himself better.

Spike doesn't really expect the soul to change *him* all that much. He
expects to be the same old Spike after he gets it. He's not a
nancy-hair-gel-poofter like Angel. He just wants to be able to tell
Buffy "I've got a soul, can we shag now?"
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
vague disclaimer
2006-09-01 19:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by l***@gmail.com
And even if he did just do it for the sake of a girl, he still wanted
to change, making it soulless redemption...
Change alone isn't enough. He would have to actually want to make
himself better.
Spike doesn't really expect the soul to change *him* all that much. He
expects to be the same old Spike after he gets it. He's not a
nancy-hair-gel-poofter like Angel. He just wants to be able to tell
Buffy "I've got a soul, can we shag now?"
And also: "I've got a soul so you and your chums can't stake me in
retaliation for trying to rape you".
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Elisi
2006-09-01 16:47:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_ soulless
redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was a monster and
wanting to change.
No that wasn't redemption. He wanted to get the soul so he could get
the girl. He might very well continue to be an evil creature, even with
his soul. Lots of souled people are evil: Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy,
George Bush.
Yes she wanted to get the girl, but he also wanted to make sure he'd
never hurt the girl again. Mixed motives and all that. And the whole
_concept_ of 'soulless redemption' is ridiculous anyway.
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
And yet he never needed redeeming when he was
soulless - he was evil and did what evil creatures do. But now that he
has a soul, he'll _have_ to be redeemed, because suddenly he's
accountable for what he did... it's the most wonderful catch-22! :)
There is no _have_ about it. He can be redeemed, but he might not be.
Of course. What I meant was that there was no need for redemption
before. Now there is. What will Spike do? Sit around brooding? Try to
be evil? Try to do good?
Post by Don Sample
(And it's not a Catch 22 anyway. A Catch 22 comes out the same way, no
matter what you do. Irredeemably evil before, irredeemably evil after,
would be a Catch 22.)
Hmmm... not exactly. It's a double bind - from the book:
---------
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a
concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and
immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could
be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would
no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be
crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he
had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but
if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very
deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let
out a respectful whistle. 'That's some catch, that Catch-22,' he
observed. 'It's the best there is,' Doc Daneeka agreed.
----------

Gurer vf bs pbhefr n pngpu-22 vaurerag va Fcvxr'f fbhy frnepu: Ohssl
jba'g ybir uvz jvgubhg bar, ohg _jvgu vg_ ur svanyyl haqrefgnaqf ubj
ubeevoyr ur vf, naq jul fur'yy arire ybir uvz...

V xabj guvf vfa'g grpuavpnyyl n fcbvyre, ohg V svtherq jr'q orggre abg
fgneg gnyxvat nobhg jung Fcvxr vf yvxr va F7. Ur zvtug unir pbzr onpx
jvgu unve gung terj fgenvtug hc...
James Craine
2006-09-02 01:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Elisi
Post by Ken from Chicago
I think every Spike-redemptionist had a glorious summer that year, tho kinda
awkward after a season of arguing for Spike's redemption WITHOUT a soul, to
have him get redemption by getting a soul--versus Spike-purists who argued
he could never get without a soul--Whedon turned the tables on us. It was
like kids yelling at their parents to side with them and they turn the
argument on its head.
It's so very delicious, isn't it? Because what we saw _was_ soulless
redemption: A soulless creature recongizing that he was a monster and
wanting to change.
No that wasn't redemption. He wanted to get the soul so he could get
the girl. He might very well continue to be an evil creature, even with
his soul. Lots of souled people are evil: Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy,
George Bush.
Don't forget that conscienceless killer... Ted Kennedy.
b***@hotmail.com
2006-09-01 21:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."
That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.
See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.
But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?
Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.
Right. Because nothing says "I wanna get my soul back for Buffy" like
"That bitch is gonna see a change."
MBangel10 (Melissa)
2006-09-01 21:29:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."
That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.
See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.
But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?
Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.
Right. Because nothing says "I wanna get my soul back for Buffy" like
"That bitch is gonna see a change."
From 'No Place Like Home'

BUFFY: Spike.

SPIKE: Hi, Buffy.

BUFFY: Don't take this the wrong way but...

She socks him in the nose.

SPIKE: Ow!

BUFFY: What are you doing here? Five words or less.

Spike counts the words on his fingers.

SPIKE: Out... for... a... walk... *bitch*.


From 'Crush'

SPIKE: (shouting) Gaaah! What the bleeding hell is wrong with you bloody
women? What the hell does it take? Why ... do you *bitches* torture me?
BUFFY: Which question do you want me to answer first?
SPIKE: Look, I, I'm at the end of my bleeding tether. You know? I don't
even know why I even bother, you know. (points at Dru) This is your
fault. You're the one to blame for all this.
DRUSILLA: Am I?
SPIKE: (shouting) Bloody right you are! If you hadn't left me for that
chaos demon, I never would have come back here! Never would have had
this sodding chip in my skull! And you - (to Buffy) wouldn't be able to
touch me, because this, (pointing to Buffy, then to himself) with you,
is wrong. I know it. I'm not a complete idiot.

From 'Wrecked'

SPIKE: Now, I admit it. You've had me by the short hairs. (softly) I
love you. (glances at her) You know it. But I got my rocks back. You
felt something last night.
BUFFY: Not love.
SPIKE: Not yet. But I'm in your system now. You're gonna crave me, like
I crave blood. And the next time you come crawling, if you don't stop
being such a *bitch*, maybe I will bite you.
BUFFY: (stares, stops walking) That, that's it! I want you out of my
life! Out of my work, out of my home-
SPIKE: Too late for that. You invited me in already. (Buffy scowls) And
as for your work, you need me. Like tonight.
BUFFY: I'll find Dawn myself.
SPIKE: (rolls eyes) You really gonna put your little sis in danger just
to spite me?

Well so what, he called Buffy a bitch (a few times actually)... doesn't
change how he feels about her. So, your point is?
Elisi
2006-09-01 21:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by MBangel10 (Melissa)
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."
That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.
See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.
But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?
Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.
Right. Because nothing says "I wanna get my soul back for Buffy" like
"That bitch is gonna see a change."
From 'No Place Like Home'
BUFFY: Spike.
SPIKE: Hi, Buffy.
BUFFY: Don't take this the wrong way but...
She socks him in the nose.
SPIKE: Ow!
BUFFY: What are you doing here? Five words or less.
Spike counts the words on his fingers.
SPIKE: Out... for... a... walk... *bitch*.
From 'Crush'
SPIKE: (shouting) Gaaah! What the bleeding hell is wrong with you bloody
women? What the hell does it take? Why ... do you *bitches* torture me?
BUFFY: Which question do you want me to answer first?
SPIKE: Look, I, I'm at the end of my bleeding tether. You know? I don't
even know why I even bother, you know. (points at Dru) This is your
fault. You're the one to blame for all this.
DRUSILLA: Am I?
SPIKE: (shouting) Bloody right you are! If you hadn't left me for that
chaos demon, I never would have come back here! Never would have had
this sodding chip in my skull! And you - (to Buffy) wouldn't be able to
touch me, because this, (pointing to Buffy, then to himself) with you,
is wrong. I know it. I'm not a complete idiot.
From 'Wrecked'
SPIKE: Now, I admit it. You've had me by the short hairs. (softly) I
love you. (glances at her) You know it. But I got my rocks back. You
felt something last night.
BUFFY: Not love.
SPIKE: Not yet. But I'm in your system now. You're gonna crave me, like
I crave blood. And the next time you come crawling, if you don't stop
being such a *bitch*, maybe I will bite you.
BUFFY: (stares, stops walking) That, that's it! I want you out of my
life! Out of my work, out of my home-
SPIKE: Too late for that. You invited me in already. (Buffy scowls) And
as for your work, you need me. Like tonight.
BUFFY: I'll find Dawn myself.
SPIKE: (rolls eyes) You really gonna put your little sis in danger just
to spite me?
Well so what, he called Buffy a bitch (a few times actually)... doesn't
change how he feels about her. So, your point is?
You forgot:

"I hope she fries, I'm free if that bitch dies/I better help her out!"

Calling her a bitch is a sure signal that Spike is conflicted. An
external sign of an internal conflict.
Mel
2006-09-02 02:28:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by MBangel10 (Melissa)
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
"We give you back... your soul."
That moment. That _exact_ moment changed my life. It sounds awfully
melodramatic, but it's true.
See I watched BtVS from the begnning. First it was fun tv, then good
tv, then (after FFL) must-see tv. But it was still 'just tv'. After
that moment it became more. I guess the technical term would be that I
became a fan girl - not that I knew that because I barely knew that
fandom existed, and wouldn't find out for another year.
But - why did it have such an effect? Why does it still?
Because Spike (literally) does the impossible. He dared to reach for
the stars, and he actually touched them. He's Munchausen, pulling
himself up from the ditch.
Right. Because nothing says "I wanna get my soul back for Buffy" like
"That bitch is gonna see a change."
From 'No Place Like Home'
BUFFY: Spike.
SPIKE: Hi, Buffy.
BUFFY: Don't take this the wrong way but...
She socks him in the nose.
SPIKE: Ow!
BUFFY: What are you doing here? Five words or less.
Spike counts the words on his fingers.
SPIKE: Out... for... a... walk... *bitch*.
From 'Crush'
SPIKE: (shouting) Gaaah! What the bleeding hell is wrong with you bloody
women? What the hell does it take? Why ... do you *bitches* torture me?
BUFFY: Which question do you want me to answer first?
SPIKE: Look, I, I'm at the end of my bleeding tether. You know? I don't
even know why I even bother, you know. (points at Dru) This is your
fault. You're the one to blame for all this.
DRUSILLA: Am I?
SPIKE: (shouting) Bloody right you are! If you hadn't left me for that
chaos demon, I never would have come back here! Never would have had
this sodding chip in my skull! And you - (to Buffy) wouldn't be able to
touch me, because this, (pointing to Buffy, then to himself) with you,
is wrong. I know it. I'm not a complete idiot.
From 'Wrecked'
SPIKE: Now, I admit it. You've had me by the short hairs. (softly) I
love you. (glances at her) You know it. But I got my rocks back. You
felt something last night.
BUFFY: Not love.
SPIKE: Not yet. But I'm in your system now. You're gonna crave me, like
I crave blood. And the next time you come crawling, if you don't stop
being such a *bitch*, maybe I will bite you.
BUFFY: (stares, stops walking) That, that's it! I want you out of my
life! Out of my work, out of my home-
SPIKE: Too late for that. You invited me in already. (Buffy scowls) And
as for your work, you need me. Like tonight.
BUFFY: I'll find Dawn myself.
SPIKE: (rolls eyes) You really gonna put your little sis in danger just
to spite me?
Well so what, he called Buffy a bitch (a few times actually)... doesn't
change how he feels about her. So, your point is?
Don't forget this one:

From OMWF:

"I hope she fries.
I'm free if that bitch dies.
I better help her out."



Mel
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.
Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.
Good points about his refusal to accept the status quo. I think it's
important that this "redemption" was still primarily selfishly
motivated. He takes the only step that'll ever allow him to be
anything more than evil, but it's with evil intent. I tend to like it
when a show has a character who sometimes does the right thing for all
the wrong reasons.

-AOQ
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 02:02:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by Elisi
See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.
Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.
Good points about his refusal to accept the status quo. I think it's
important that this "redemption" was still primarily selfishly
motivated. He takes the only step that'll ever allow him to be
anything more than evil, but it's with evil intent. I tend to like it
when a show has a character who sometimes does the right thing for all
the wrong reasons.
-AOQ
Good? Possible.

Selfish? Plausible.

Evil? Improbable. What's the "evil" reason for getting his soul back?

-- Ken from Chicago
Malsperanza
2006-09-02 03:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by Elisi
See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.
Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.
Good points about his refusal to accept the status quo. I think it's
important that this "redemption" was still primarily selfishly
motivated. He takes the only step that'll ever allow him to be
anything more than evil, but it's with evil intent. I tend to like it
when a show has a character who sometimes does the right thing for all
the wrong reasons.
-AOQ
Good? Possible.
Selfish? Plausible.
Evil? Improbable. What's the "evil" reason for getting his soul back?
-- Ken from Chicago
Oh, at least in theory this could work. In straight theological terms,
the soul is what gives human beings free will--the capacity to
distinguish moral from immoral, and to *choose* good or evil. So if
Spike is truly deeply evil, he will want his soul back so that when he
wreaks his final hideous vengeance on Buffy he can do so not out of
animalistic, unthinking vampirish evilness, but fully human evilness.
Prior to having a soul, Spike is only partly responsible for his
vampirism (hence the long debates on the newsgroup about whether he's
more like a hungry alligator or Ted Bundy), and the chip is, as Xander
describes it, a simple leash. But now that he has a soul, if he can get
rid of the chip and then destroy or vampirize Buffy, his vengeance will
be far more fully felt and enjoyed--and he will be far more
identifiably at the Ted Bundy end of the scale.

In other words, he might still turn on Buffy, as Angel did when he
returned to being Angelus, but withou the excuse of an external curse.

I think s6 ends with that still very much a possibility. The fact that
we learn at the end of s6 that Spike (apparently) wanted to get his
soul back all along doesn't necessarily tell us why he wants it back.

For the sake of argument.

~Mal
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 03:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malsperanza
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by Elisi
See I adore Angel, but Angel has to be pushed in the right direction,
over and over and over again. He accepts that things are how they are,
and he constantly has to be reminded that he can change them. Spike is
the opposite. He refuses to be who he should - Buffy says he can't be
good - well he'll show her (offering to kill Dru sadly didn't work, but
points for effort, right?). He keeps striving. He knows that Buffy
won't love him, but still spends all of S6 trying - and when he himself
proves to her (and, most shockingly, to himself), _why_ she shouldn't,
he goes to do something about it.
Now I'm not sure that getting the soul was exactly a noble pursuit. I
doubt Spike had any sort of idea of what it might do to him. And he was
obviously seriously pissed off at Buffy for 'forcing' him to take such
drastic measures - as far as he knows, being a vampire with a soul will
turn him into a 'fluffy puppy with bad teeth'. But Buffy loved Angel -
and Buffy and friends are always saying how he's a 'soulless, evil
thing'. So a soul it is then, if that's what it'll take to win his fair
lady's hand - to give her what she deserves.
Good points about his refusal to accept the status quo. I think it's
important that this "redemption" was still primarily selfishly
motivated. He takes the only step that'll ever allow him to be
anything more than evil, but it's with evil intent. I tend to like it
when a show has a character who sometimes does the right thing for all
the wrong reasons.
-AOQ
Good? Possible.
Selfish? Plausible.
Evil? Improbable. What's the "evil" reason for getting his soul back?
-- Ken from Chicago
Oh, at least in theory this could work. In straight theological terms,
the soul is what gives human beings free will--the capacity to
distinguish moral from immoral, and to *choose* good or evil. So if
Spike is truly deeply evil, he will want his soul back so that when he
wreaks his final hideous vengeance on Buffy he can do so not out of
animalistic, unthinking vampirish evilness, but fully human evilness.
Prior to having a soul, Spike is only partly responsible for his
vampirism (hence the long debates on the newsgroup about whether he's
more like a hungry alligator or Ted Bundy), and the chip is, as Xander
describes it, a simple leash. But now that he has a soul, if he can get
rid of the chip and then destroy or vampirize Buffy, his vengeance will
be far more fully felt and enjoyed--and he will be far more
identifiably at the Ted Bundy end of the scale.
In other words, he might still turn on Buffy, as Angel did when he
returned to being Angelus, but withou the excuse of an external curse.
I think s6 ends with that still very much a possibility. The fact that
we learn at the end of s6 that Spike (apparently) wanted to get his
soul back all along doesn't necessarily tell us why he wants it back.
For the sake of argument.
~Mal
Guys aren't that complicated.

-- Ken from Chicago

P.S. "Sometimes a pen is just a pen."
drifter
2006-09-01 09:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Episode 21, eh? So, one to go?

I know you've gone over this before, but it really doesn't bother
you that you are literally the only person in the *world* to number
the episodes this way?

Would this be called non-Euclidean reviewing?
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-01 13:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by drifter
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Episode 21, eh? So, one to go?
I know you've gone over this before, but it really doesn't bother
you that you are literally the only person in the *world* to number
the episodes this way?
Would this be called non-Euclidean reviewing?
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Arb's combining "Bargaining pt 1" and "pt 2" into one ep. Notice the review
of "Grave" is the season finale.

-- Ken from Chicago
drifter
2006-09-02 02:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by drifter
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Episode 21, eh? So, one to go?
I know you've gone over this before, but it really doesn't bother
you that you are literally the only person in the *world* to number
the episodes this way?
Would this be called non-Euclidean reviewing?
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Arb's combining "Bargaining pt 1" and "pt 2" into one ep. Notice the
review of "Grave" is the season finale.
yeah, thanks for clearing that up, Ken.
--
Kel
"Now, what's the emoticon for sarcasm, again?"
vague disclaimer
2006-09-01 09:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story.
You misspelled "merciful" as "unfortunate".
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year,
The first time, hysterical panic and self-absorption.

The second, genuine, bone-shaking grief and pain.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
That's because I kinda feel like
I "should" too, but I don't. I don't know if it's the power
of context, writing, or acting, but this part has the sheer force of
something on its side. One has to wonder how strong her "spark of
humanity" was: it does seem either convenient or not-coincidental
that she would suggest that "you're going to stop me by telling me
you love me?" Kinda handing Xander the key to do exactly that.
A line was cut from Giles's explanation.

GILES
W-well, I knew there was a
possibility. The gift I was given by
the coven was the true essence of
Magic. Which comes, in all it's
purity, from the Earth itself.
Willow's magic came from a place of
rage and power.

Love's pure. Geddit?

I think the first choice, if an ep needs trimming, is to vague things up
a bit (more).

I approve.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Spike
I initially thought - but then didn't - that you had not fallen for the
clumsiest misdirection since Napoleon shouted: "Oi! Wellington. Look
over there." Now I'm not so sure.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story.
You misspelled "merciful" as "unfortunate".
You mispelled "you're totally right" as the above sentence. Also,
"mispelled."
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year,
The first time, hysterical panic and self-absorption.
The second, genuine, bone-shaking grief and pain.
That's very well said, and refreshingly concise.
Post by vague disclaimer
I initially thought - but then didn't - that you had not fallen for the
clumsiest misdirection since Napoleon shouted: "Oi! Wellington. Look
over there." Now I'm not so sure.
Sorta half and half. I basically assumed the obvious, but thought
there might be something else going on. I don't think being fooled
makes it good writing, though, just manipulative for its own sake.

-AOQ
vague disclaimer
2006-09-02 02:01:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story.
You misspelled "merciful" as "unfortunate".
You mispelled "you're totally right" as the above sentence. Also,
"mispelled."
Actually, I forgot myself. It's "misspelt". I speak English.

And also, double S is correct.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year,
The first time, hysterical panic and self-absorption.
The second, genuine, bone-shaking grief and pain.
That's very well said, and refreshingly concise.
Post by vague disclaimer
I initially thought - but then didn't - that you had not fallen for the
clumsiest misdirection since Napoleon shouted: "Oi! Wellington. Look
over there." Now I'm not so sure.
Sorta half and half. I basically assumed the obvious, but thought
there might be something else going on. I don't think being fooled
makes it good writing, though, just manipulative for its own sake.
Oh, it's certainly that alright - subtle is definitely not the an
applicable word.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
drifter
2006-09-02 02:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story.
You misspelled "merciful" as "unfortunate".
You mispelled "you're totally right" as the above sentence. Also,
"mispelled."
Is there one joke or two in that sentence?
--
Kel
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own."
Espen Schjønberg
2006-09-01 10:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
What's Giles been up to?
I don't know. He knows Buffy needs him, so he leaves her. He knows she
needs his money, so he lets her work at a hamburger bar, probably to
tell the audience they have to find their place at the bottom of
society. He is her logistic train, say, how would all the previous a
15-year old slayers have survived without their Watchers in the medieval
times? Earlier, a young girl would have needed to work 17 hours a day
for just her food and her bunk, 'cause thats what 15 year old girls did
at the time. A new shirt- and a slayer would probably rip clothing like
that apart every other night- costed, like, something like two months
(or something) pay. Of course, the Watchers would generally know they
were supposed to keep their Slayer in the field. That is not paying.
That is, like, just how you do to keep your warrior in the field. And
they _must_ have been doing it for centuries. So, what is Giles doing?
Leaving her. Duh.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
It is odd seeing Buffy not be the final hero of the day.
So, after Willow was made into the Big Bad. What could we expect, Buffy
slaying her best friend? It was a given thing this not could be like it
used to be: Buffy solving the problems with violence.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before.
You are right. He has never been that.

This "Spike gets his soul back" tend to be one of the most discussed
items here. The ones defending the series at this stage will of course
have a natural advantage, in the fact most people rejecting this just
gives up.

Anyhow, to me, this "misdirecting" has a prise: As we not have been told
what Spike asked for, but the writers (based on what they were taught in
the "this is how we make soap" -course they have taken) attempted to
make it look like he asked for Something Else [tm], it looks like he was
just framed.

So that is what I have as a starting point: he asked for the one thing
he thought would make him respected, the ability to kill innocents,
something he was not able to with the chip. That is what evil things
thinks about respect. They are wrong about it, but that is what they think.

But those kind of wish-granting demons never gives you what you think
you will get. They may twist what you asked for into a curse, that's
what they think is fun.

Spike with a soul is not the same character. He is as far from Spike as
Angel is from Angelus. And the Spoike-demon inside will now be cursed.
fun fun fun.

But how embarrassing this will be for Buffy, when we now will see how
different Spike will be with his soul! A totally new character, knowing
all about her relationship with the demon Spike?!
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
I must admit: I had lost confidence in the writers at this stage. That
means, I just watched, I didn't bother to guess what was going to
happen, I didn't bother to guess what Spike -or the silly demon- was up to.

This is the sad truth. This also means I could not be misdirected
anymore, 'cause the magic (for me) was gone. This also means there was
no possibility for cleverness here.

Still, I didn't think this was very clever the one or perhaps two times
I have seen it again.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
One-sentence summary: Seems to mostly work,[]
With Buffy far away from the showdown, as a silly sideshow in some silly
graves? Well. Not.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
AOQ rating: Good
So far, a sad ending of a sad season.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
Decent, and Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
2) "After Life" - Good
Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
3) "Flooded" - Decent
Weak.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
4) "Life Serial" - Good
Weak.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
5) "All The Way" - Good
Bad. Giles slaying faster than Buffy? Just like falling of a log.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
Yeah, I still think so.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
I have mixed feelings about this. They are mixed between Good and Weak.
Spike not trying to join the bad guys, when he has amnesia? WTF? But it
is a fun episode. I give it a decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
8) "Smashed" - Decent
BAD
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
9) "Wrecked" - Good
BAD
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
10) "Gone" - Decent
Weak
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
11) "Doublemeat Palace" - Decent
Bad
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
12) "Dead Things" - Good
Good. No, really, I mean it.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
13) "Older And Far Away" - Good
Weak. What a drag.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
14) "As You Were" - Decent
Bad
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
15) "Hell's Bells" - Weak
Huh, I might have given it a decent. Can't have. ;-) Weak then. ;-) I
mean, D'Hoffryn coming to Anyas wedding?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
16) "Normal Again" - Excellent
This, I cannot class, as I was so annoyed. I think either Weak or Good.
I'm not sure why I was so annoyed. It was the lack of right to try to
getting swept away I think. People come at me and say the masters has
done things like this, and they are the masters.

Yeah, they are the masters. At this stage, the writers of Buffy, are
not. Meaning, I don't grant them the rights masters would have to play.

But, let's put it at decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
17) "Entropy" - Decent
Weak
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
18) "Seeing Red" - Good
Yeah, possibly. Good. This looked like a Buffy-episode!

Except for the ending. I was spoiled about that, so I don't know how I
would have reacted otherwise.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
19) "Villains" - Good
Bad (I must admit, I never watch this episodes. They are too far out for
me. The one scene with the jet-packs were fun. The rest of it, boring
and bad.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
20) "Two To Go" - Excellent
Bad (see above.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
21) "Grave" - Good]
Weak. And Sad.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BY THE NUMBERS
[Note: "Bargaining" is counted twice]
_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ Season Six
Bad - 0
Weak - 1
Decent - 8
Good - 10
Excellent - 3
I would be more like
Bad- 7 (some of them horribly bad.)
Weak 7
Decent 3
Good 4
Excellent 1
--
Espen
Elisi
2006-09-01 12:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
As I pull myself out of the pit of staring at the computer screen,
facing the bright sunrise of taking a break from posting reviews, I'm
not quite sure if things should be this way. But they seem right.
"Grave" is unexpected for me; it didn't seem like the direction
things were going, although it makes some sense in retrospect. The
"obvious" way things were going was towards something like "Two
To Go," with an ending five minutes later. That was the standard big
confrontation, so the story was now free to go somewhere else for the
second half of the finale. Between Buffy saving herself but not really
the world, Willow's recovery, and the open-endedness, I'm not quite
sure yet what to make of it all. All of these things threw me a
little, and I think I'm coming to terms with them now. But not sure.
OK, going to try to say something meaningful about the season... as it
happens I wrote an essay on metaphors in S6 not very long ago, so I'm
going to do a lot of cut-and-paste. It's not all-encompassing, and
focusses mostly on the core 4, but I hope it might prove interesting:

********Metahpors in Season 6************
As I see it, the show didn't abandon metaphors in S6, but changed
them greatly. In the early seasons (including 4 and 5), the monster of
the week would often be a physical manifestation of the character's
struggles. To pick two examples: Buffy and Angel getting possessed by
the ghosts in 'I Only Have Eyes For You' (2.19) and Buffy fighting
April the GirlfriendBot in 'I Was Made To Love You' (5.15). Both
experiences teach Buffy something and help her deal with her life.

But in S6 the nature of the metaphors changed. We didn't get MOTW
metaphors, instead we got something else:

1) Other characters as metaphors. (The Trio, the whole
Buffy/Warren/Spike thing)
2) The characters themselves became their own metaphor! (As in:
internal battles shown externally)
3) Restless (4.22) showed the characters struggles in S6 through
metaphor.

Now the theme of S6 was 'Life is the Big Bad' or 'Grow Up
Already'. What is the biggest part of growing up? Taking
responsibility for one's actions. When you're an adult you can do
what you want, but you have to face up to the consequences. No one will
be able to bail you out. This season the Scoobies do their very best to
run away from what they do, and from themselves - from where their
choices have brought them. And if you're not ready to face yourself,
there's no lesson that can impart that knowledge. A metaphor won't
do. As the_royal_anna says in her brilliant essay about Buffy and
Spike:

"You cannot generalise the Buffy/Spike relationship. It is a story
about a reformed vampire legend with a chip in his head and a newly
resurrected Slayer. It is a story about *a* relationship, not a
statement about relationships in general. You can't pull abstract ideas
out of it, and apply them to any other situation, and judge it on that
basis. Even the tidiest analogy in the world will never prove a point,
only illustrate it."

And I love that. The characters broke out of whatever 'story' was
assigned them and just went their own way. So yes, in one sense there
was no metaphor. Or rather - no message, and maybe that's why I love
the pairing so much. But - I don't think that's the whole story.
I've been pondering this for a while, and I think that the *are*
metaphors - but they're inherent in the characters. The characters
have to face *themselves*, not someone else. Willow f.ex. could have
met with the baddest, most magic abusing MOTW *ever*, she still
wouldn't have stopped behaving the way she did. Not until she herself
became that monster...

See it all ties in with a theory that I've had for a while - in S6
the Scoobies all fall. And they don't fall because of their
weaknesses, but because of their strength. Or rather - their strength
*becomes* their weakness. That's why they fall so badly.

I'm going to go back to the end of S4 for this. In 'Primeval' the
Scoobies all join forces - each contributing their greatest strength.
But in 'Restless' the consequences are dire. Each has their
strength taken away, and I think this is exactly what we see happening
in S6. But literally rather than in a dream. I'll use the Tarot cards
from 'Primeval' and do one character at a time, trying to tie in
the dreams from 'Restless' also.

To begin with, there are some very interesting lines from Giles'
dream that I think matter here:

WILLOW: Something's after us. It's, uh, like some primal ... some
animal force.
GILES: That used to be us.

We all have something primal in us, and it's very, very hard to
fight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WILLOW - Spiritus... The Spirit...

TAROT CARD: A picture of an ethereally striking woman, flowing hair,
billowing robe... floating inches above the ground. Imprinted on the
bottom is the word "Spiritus."


See I'm not sure exactly what 'spiritus' means in the Tarot, but
I think I can make some sort of educated guess as to what it means as
regards Willow - partly her 'spiritual side' (as in magical),
partly her 'spirit', that she thinks is fine ("I'm very seldom
naughty"), but that is actually getting darker without her noticing.

Willow spends almost all of S6 running away from the truth about
herself. She gets addicted to dark magic, but fails to see that it's
not the magic that's the problem - it's how she was using it.
_Before_ the addiction. Look at these quotes:

"What's the matter, Amy? You lonely? Oh, we need to get you a nice
companion rat that you can love ... play with ... and grow attached to,
until one day they leave you for no good reason."
Smashed 6.09

"It won't happen again, I promise. No more spells. I'm finished.
[...] It's not worth it. Not if it messes with the people I love."
Wrecked 6.10

Here we have the point I was trying to make above - external lessons
are no good. There was the whole 'Tabula Rasa' fiasco, and _even
then_ Willow could not understand that she'd hurt Tara. In
'Wrecked' Willow got hurt herself, and finally understood the
danger she was playing with. She came face to face with herself (or at
least one side of herself) - Addict!Willow - and tried to change. But
of course it wasn't enough. (I'm going with the straight
'magic=drugs' here. And for all we know Rack did have something
addictive in his 'special brand'. Also she was *incredibly*
irresponsible with magic before that.)

So Willow spent the whole season trying to 'get better', only
looking at a couple of nights of recklessness as the main problem.
Refusing to take responsibility for her actions the last many years!
Fighting a foe that was largely made up. Until Tara was killed. And
then... then there was no sign of Addict!Willow anywhere. What emerged
was Dark!Willow - and Dark!Willow was much harder to fight. Because all
the hardest battles are internal - and since this was BtVS we got to
see the battle play out before us. And Willow lost. Dark!Willow took
over completely ("Willow doesn't live here anymore"), just like
we'd seen previously in 'The Wish' and 'Doppelgangland'. But
this time it wasn't a 'different' Willow - this time we only had
the one. If it hadn't been for Xander, she would have ended the
world. He was somehow able to find 'Willow' underneath the darkness
and bring her out again.

But that was after she lost: She was ravaged and torn to pieces, just
like in 'Restless', but she was the one who tore herself apart...

Going back to 'Restless':

Willow's dream is all about who she is. And that there is some dark
secret:

TARA: They will find out, you know. About you.

Find out what? It's mentioned the whole way through:

TARA: Everyone's starting to wonder about you. The real you. If they
find out, they'll punish you, I ... I can't help you with that.

Who *is* the real Willow? The sweet little nerdy girl we met so long
ago or the immensely powerful witch she grew up to be? Or maybe...
maybe that strength was always there? It just found an outlet.

Willow was of course a very *good* girl back then, but...

Giles: So, all the city plans are just, uh, open to the public?
Willow: Um, well, i-in a way. I sort of stumbled onto them when I
accidentally decrypted the city council's security system.
Xander: Someone's been naughty.
The Harvest (1.02)

It was only 'an accident', apparently. And for someone so very
honest, she sure did decrypt a lot of stuff over the next few years.
And it never registered as something to be worried about:

"I'm very seldom naughty." (Restless)

Who Willow was, and who she became, is all part of the same thing.

Now in 'Restless' Tara symbolised her inner peace:

WILLOW: I never worry here. I'm safe here.

And when that inner peace was shattered and taken away, Willow lost it:

BUFFY: Willow, I know what you want to do, but you have to listen to
me. The forces inside you are incredibly powerful. They're strong ...
but you're stronger. You have to remember you're still Willow.
WILLOW: (scoffs) Let me tell you something about Willow. She's a loser.
And she always has been. People picked on Willow in junior high school,
high school, up until college. With her stupid mousy ways. And now?
Willow's a junkie.
BUFFY: I can help.
WILLOW: The only thing Willow was ever good for...
She pauses, drops the bitter sarcasm and grows pensive.
WILLOW: ...the only thing I had going for me ... were the moments -
just moments - when Tara would look at me and I was wonderful. (grimly)
And that will never happen again.
Two To Go (6.21)

Another repeated feature of Willow's dream is the way everyone keeps
commenting that she's in costume. We saw in the conversation above
how scornful Willow was of her past self - literally viewing her as a
different person. The thing is, she isn't. In 'Restless' Buffy
rips off her 'new' clothes and reveals 'Old Willow' underneath.
This is directly referenced in 'Two To Go':

JONATHAN: I still can't believe that was Willow. I mean, I've known her
almost as long as you guys. Willow was ... you know. She packed her own
lunches and wore floods and was always... just Willow.
JONATHAN: Geez it!
ANDREW: What was that?
Reveal a large truck behind the car, with Willow standing on top of the
truck's cab. Her eyes are all-black again. She holds her hands in front
of her, elbows extended, palms facing out.
XANDER: Just Willow.

Of course now the question is - can Just Willow live with what she's
done? Where does she go from here? Will they punish her, the way Tara
said?
~~~~~~~~~

XANDER - Animus... Heart...
TAROT CARD: The picture is of a valiant knight in bloodied tunic
emblazoned with a heart. At the bottom, it reads, "Animus".

Xander was always the heart. The one who saw things. (Not always,
because he was also a character on the show and had problems like
everyone else.) And yet come S6 he utterly ignored what was right in
front of his nose. "I'll never tell!" he sang in OMWF, and he
didn't. Instead of dealing with his fear marriage, he first hid it
completely (until 'All The Way'), and then tried to 'fix
things' by summoning Sweet. In 'Tabula Rasa' it's interesting
to note that Xander and Anya get split up, and never realise that they
were a couple. After that Anya frets, and Xander eats a lot. They both
fixate on the practical, but apart from a brief talk in 'As You
Were' (6.15), they do not discuss their relationship at all. Remember
Xander in 'The Replacement', getting self confidence from being
split in half and knowing exactly what to say to Anya? Or in 'Into
The Woods' (5.10) when he took the lesson he'd learned from
Buffy/Riley and applied it to himself? There's no sign of that in S6.
He took a big step in 'The Gift' when he asked Anya to marry him, but
in the end he is unable to take responsibility for that step.

In 'Hell's Bells' he came face to face _with himself_ - and it
might just have been a demon, but to Xander it was real:

ANYA: But it wa - it wasn't real. What he showed you, it wasn't real.
XANDER: I know it wasn't real. But it could be.
ANYA: What was it? Was it about me? 'Cause he wanted you to hate me,
Xander.
XANDER: It wasn't you. It wasn't you I was hating. I had these
thoughts, and ... fears before this.

Xander was brought face to face with himself - with what he could
become. And he lost. Then he proceeded to run away from the
consequences his decision had. From 'Entropy':

ANYA: No, the mature solution is for you to spend your whole life
telling stupid, pointless jokes, so that no one will notice that you
are just a scared, insecure little boy!
XANDER: I'm not joking now. You let that evil, soulless thing touch
you. (pointing at Spike) You wanted me to feel something?
Congratulations, it worked.

But what is Anya at this point? From what we've seen, Vengeance
Demons appear to be 'evil, soulless things'. Xander destroyed who
Anya had become and turned her into the thing he despised the most.
(Now that's a metaphor for you!) And it was all the work of his
heart. Which then got torn out...

He understands a little when Anya later explains that her tryst with
Spike was solace, but Xander doesn't begin to take responsibility
until he goes off to stop Willow. This time he stands by his love, and
doesn't move, even in the face of death. It's the first step to
show that he's taken a new turn. Because that's the other thing
about growing up... it takes time.

Going back to 'Restless', Xander's dream is all about 'the
journey':

XANDER: You gotta have something. Gotta be with movin' forward.

But - he always ends up back in his parents' basement. It's the
fear of what's at the top of those basement stairs that keeps him
trapped. "That's not the way out." he says. Oh Xander - but it
was. Walking down that aisle would have been the way out. But he was
too frightened by what he'd seen himself do, what he could become,
and he couldn't leave:

DAD: You won't come upstairs? What are you ... ashamed of us? Your
mother's crying her guts out!
XANDER: You don't understand.
DAD: No. You don't understand. The line ends here with us, and you're
not gonna change that. You haven't got the heart.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GILES - Sophus... Mind...
TAROT CARD: A wizened scholar, surrounded by scrolls, and Old World
globe. The word at the bottom: "Sophus."

Giles was always the mind - the teacher, the Watcher, the father
figure. The adult. The one who took responsibility. So of course he had
to leave. It's something that didn't work very well in a story
sense, because it was so obvious that he was needed - Buffy could
barely function, Willow was dabbling in dangerous magic - but from a
metaphorical POV it's absolutely necessary. The children can't grow
up if they don't live on their own, so the father had to leave. But -
it might not have been the right time for them to grow up. Maybe they
weren't ready?

The thing is - Giles had left already. He had been getting himself
ready to go for a long time, preparing to have a life of his own, as
far back as the end of S4. And we see how distant he is in this
exchange after his return:

GILES: Otherwise, there's, uh, nothing really to report. I, um, I keep
a flat in Bath. I, I, uh, met with a few old friends. Almost made a new
one, which I think is ... statistically impossible for a man of my age.
[...]
I can't lie to you, Buffy. Um ... leaving Sunnydale was, uh, was
difficult. And, uh, coming back was...
BUFFY: I'm guessing the word is "inconvenient"?
GILES: No. Bewildering.
Flooded (6.04)

He's confused - and he makes the choice to leave again, thinking and
thinking if this was the right thing. And then - then Giles also comes
face to face with himself, but in a different way. He made choices long
ago that affected what life he has had, and in 'Tabula Rasa' he
sees who he might have been - a man grounded in reality, with a family
(a son and a young, pretty fiancée) and it must have hurt a great deal
to realise that it was all unreal. So he leaves, maybe attempting to
somehow become that other Giles he glimpsed. Falling, just like the
rest of them, although in a different way. Shirking his
responsibilities, and generally acting as though someone had cut his
brain out.


Giles' dream in 'Restless' is about making choices. What life
does he choose?

- The Watcher's life of duty?

GILES: This is my business. Blood of the lamb and all that.

- Or a life of his own? Which interestingly is represented by Spike
(=Ripper, who Giles used to be. The non-conformist.)

SPIKE: Come on! You're gonna miss everything!

Spike is urging Giles to choose, to think, to hurry:

GILES: What am I supposed to do with all of this?
SPIKE: You gotta make up your mind, Rupes. What are you wasting your
time for? Haven't you figured it all out yet, with your enormous
squishy frontal lobes?

And he tries, but not with much success.

GILES: Buffy, I've thought this over ... and over. I believe it's the
right thing to do.
BUFFY: You're wrong.
Tabula Rasa (6.08)

In 'Restless' he leaves Buffy to follow Spike and gets lost,
finally finding Willow and Xander:

WILLOW: Do you know this is your fault?
GILES: We have to think of the facts, Willow. I'm very busy. I have a
gig myself, you know.

And then finally he meets his fate, his mind unable to vanquish his foe
(too busy focussing on that gig?), even as he thinks he's winning:

GILES: And I can defeat you ... with my intellect.
(We see the First Slayer approaching from behind)
I ... can cripple you with my thoughts.
(It grabs his hair, puts a weapon against his forehead)
Of course, you underestimate me. You couldn't know.
(Closeup of Giles' face with blood dripping down from his forehead. We
hear
his voice but his lips don't move.)
GILES: You never had a Watcher.

But in S6 it's Buffy who will be Watcher-less. As for Giles in S6,
then of course he *does* return in the end - when one of the
'children' has gone off the rails. Because - as Willow told him in
'Restless' - it was his fault. So he came back to help set things
straight.

WILLOW: Well, you should get going. Don't you have a life or something?
GILES: Um, well, I suppose that's the question really.
Bargaining I

~~~~~~~~~~~~

BUFFY - Manus. The Hand
TAROT CARD: It's a picture of two hands intersecting each other - one
open and outstretched, the other clenched into a tight fist. It reads
"Manus."


I love the images of the hands on the card. One open, one closed.
Because it ties on so well with how Buffy is presented metaphorically
on the show in the later seasons: In two halves. Both part of her, both
important - and needing to be balanced.

Dawn - her light side, her humanity.
Buffy: "She's more than that. She's me. The monks made her out of me.
I hold her ... and I feel closer to her than ... It's not just the
memories they built. It's physical. Dawn ... is a part of me. The only
part that I-"
The Gift (5.22)

Spike - her dark side, her demon.
Buffy: "That's okay. I can be alone with you here."
Afterlife (6.03)

We see this already in S5 of course, and in S5 Buffy is in control of
both. She's caring for Dawn and (although mostly indirectly) teaching
Spike how to grow. By season's end Spike is ready to die for Dawn and
in the summer that follows he watches over her carefully. Buffy's
darkness and light working together in harmony.

But it doesn't end there - that is just the beginning. Because the
Scoobies bring Buffy back to life and everything changes. Going back to
what I said at the beginning - growing up is about responsibility.
"But!" I can hear you say - "Buffy is *very* responsible! She's
the epitome of responsibility!" Which is true in a general sense -
she does her Slayer duties, she works and pays the bills, makes sure
Dawn is fed, and even that Willow is OK. But these are all external
things. The one thing Buffy doesn't take care of in S6 is - herself!
And we see the effects of this directly in the behaviour of Dawn and
Spike. People complain that Dawn is too childlike in S6. Now this
almost only makes sense when viewed metaphorically. Buffy quite simply
does not let herself mature - she clings to her childish outlook on
life. And she very carefully separates Spike from Dawn - she does not
want him to taint that part of her. The darkness should be beaten down
and hidden, because it is 'wrong'.

Also note that both the dark and the light side of her is immature, but
in different ways. Her human side is childish, needing protection and
care. Her demon side is unable to understand the difference between
right and wrong, and needs guidance.

(I then discussed each episode in the light of this, but it's hardly
needed here. And going with my theme of the characters having to face
themselves, then that's what Buffy does in 'Normal Again', taking
responsibility for herself.)


In the end - when stuck in the ground with Dawn - Buffy has an epiphany
of sorts: she can't keep her human side childish. She needs to let it
grow up. Needs to let that part of her mature and help it do so:

BUFFY: But it's gonna be [OK], though. I see it.
DAWN: See what?
BUFFY: You.
[...]
BUFFY: Things have really sucked lately, but it's all gonna change. And
I wanna be there when it does. I want to see my friends happy again.
And I want to see you grow up. The woman you're gonna become. Because
she's gonna be beautiful. And she's going to be powerful. [...] I got
it so wrong. I don't want to protect you from the world. I want to show
it to you. [..] There's so much that I want to show you.

It's the final piece of the puzzle - the last step towards taking
full responsibility for herself.

And 'at the same time', her dark side regains his soul. Learns how
to distinguish right from wrong, gets ready to grow and learn by
himself, needing no one to 'be responsible for him'.
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
As I pull myself out of the pit of staring at the computer screen,
facing the bright sunrise of taking a break from posting reviews, I'm
not quite sure if things should be this way. But they seem right.
"Grave" is unexpected for me; it didn't seem like the direction
things were going, although it makes some sense in retrospect. The
"obvious" way things were going was towards something like "Two
To Go," with an ending five minutes later. That was the standard big
confrontation, so the story was now free to go somewhere else for the
second half of the finale. Between Buffy saving herself but not really
the world, Willow's recovery, and the open-endedness, I'm not quite
sure yet what to make of it all. All of these things threw me a
little, and I think I'm coming to terms with them now. But not sure.
OK, going to try to say something meaningful about the season... as it
happens I wrote an essay on metaphors in S6 not very long ago, so I'm
going to do a lot of cut-and-paste. It's not all-encompassing, and
********Metahpors in Season 6************
As I see it, the show didn't abandon metaphors in S6, but changed
them greatly. In the early seasons (including 4 and 5), the monster of
the week would often be a physical manifestation of the character's
struggles. To pick two examples: Buffy and Angel getting possessed by
the ghosts in 'I Only Have Eyes For You' (2.19) and Buffy fighting
April the GirlfriendBot in 'I Was Made To Love You' (5.15). Both
experiences teach Buffy something and help her deal with her life.
But in S6 the nature of the metaphors changed. We didn't get MOTW
1) Other characters as metaphors. (The Trio, the whole
Buffy/Warren/Spike thing)
Where've you been? That's been part of the show since the beginning;
S1-Cordelia comes to mind. They were more straightforward in the early
days; whether S6's parallels were richer or just sloppier is left as an
intellectual exercise.
Post by Elisi
Here we have the point I was trying to make above - external lessons
are no good. There was the whole 'Tabula Rasa' fiasco, and _even
then_ Willow could not understand that she'd hurt Tara. In
'Wrecked' Willow got hurt herself, and finally understood the
danger she was playing with. She came face to face with herself (or at
least one side of herself) - Addict!Willow - and tried to change. But
of course it wasn't enough.
So Willow spent the whole season trying to 'get better', only
looking at a couple of nights of recklessness as the main problem.
Refusing to take responsibility for her actions the last many years!
Fighting a foe that was largely made up. Until Tara was killed. And
then... then there was no sign of Addict!Willow anywhere. What emerged
was Dark!Willow - and Dark!Willow was much harder to fight. Because all
the hardest battles are internal - and since this was BtVS we got to
see the battle play out before us. And Willow lost. Dark!Willow took
over completely ("Willow doesn't live here anymore"), just like
we'd seen previously in 'The Wish' and 'Doppelgangland'. But
this time it wasn't a 'different' Willow - this time we only had
the one. If it hadn't been for Xander, she would have ended the
world. He was somehow able to find 'Willow' underneath the darkness
and bring her out again.
Hmm, sounds like something someone whose name rhymes with "Starbitrar
of Pollity" has been saying for awhile. I like the idea of a
large-scale reenactment of "Restless," but I'll have to think about
that some more.

-AOQ
Apteryx
2006-09-01 12:20:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
twelve consecutive episodes off-screen. The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why. Maybe seeing Buffy
talk about sleeping with Spike with only a minimum of shame or
hesitation, followed by the laughter, feels healing, maybe more so than
the end of the episode.
That is one of the highlights for me. It would have been disappointing
if they hadn't been able to bring out the humour in the litany of
desondency we have been through in season 6
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
So...
One-sentence summary: Seems to mostly work, but it's hard to be sure;
my rating is tentative.
AOQ rating: Good
It is certainly an odd mix of the good and the awful. I noted it as a
"Tosh sandwhich" - a good beginning, and several of the endings are
good, but it's complete tosh in between. I like the Xander/Willow
ending, sappy though it may be, the Nerd Duo ending, the Spike ending.
The Giles/Anya ending is rendered ineffective by the earlier on
again/off again prospective death of Giles, and the Buffy/Dawn ending
is barfable. Overall there is just enough to barely nudge it into
Decent territory for me. Its my 126th favourite BtVS episode, 19th best
in season 6.

Apteryx
j***@hotmail.com
2006-09-01 12:35:33 UTC
Permalink
That's our Willow. Kill them all and let um... the Power That Be sort
them out.

And yet another thing in Sunnydale on - in range of - the Hellmouth
meant to bring around the end of the world! Wait, wait, this must be a
retcon! No one's mentioned there was another power there! This must
be evil! Er, sorry.

Willow managed to control Anya the Vengeance Demon, even after Giles
had bound her. That was something to think about for me, too.

It was so sweet how Anya, searching for a little validation herself,
pointed out that she'd changed her hair, too.

Oh man, you would have loved the ranting that went on about Spike
getting his soul! Some people deeply resented that Joss or whomever
went to such great lingths to keep the Spoiler assholes from exposing
that information. In retrospect, when I thought about it, "restore"
really was the key. Spike doesn't need to be turned from anything into
a vampire, he still is. He doesn't need to be made evil, he already
is. So, what can there be to restore? But it is clear, I mean, why
would Spike have a clue just how different having a soul might be from
having a chip? Only Buffy and Angel really know. Well, and Darla.
(How vehement are you about not being spoiled for Angel? Because
really, AOQ, Season 4 of Angel severely overlaps in a few places with
Season 7 of Buffy. And 4 springs powerfully off of 3.)

I've got a fanwank that the Demon in Africa is one of those stories
vampires tell the ones they've sired around the campfire. "So... if
you go to Africa, and battle through terrible agonizing trials... you
can get your soul back." "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!" "Say it again, say it
again! Man, you're giving me the shivers!" "Get your soul back,
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
you shut up already with that stupid EW?" "It's just so gross. I'm
gonna tell Blondie-Bear!" "Who?"
Elisi
2006-09-01 12:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
I've got a fanwank that the Demon in Africa is one of those stories
vampires tell the ones they've sired around the campfire. "So... if
you go to Africa, and battle through terrible agonizing trials... you
can get your soul back." "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!" "Say it again, say it
again! Man, you're giving me the shivers!" "Get your soul back,
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
you shut up already with that stupid EW?" "It's just so gross. I'm
gonna tell Blondie-Bear!" "Who?"
Heeeeeeeee!

Npghnyyl gurl gebj n yvggyr yvtug ba gur guvat va 'Qrfgval':

Fcvxr: Ohg zr... V sbhtug sbe zl fbhy. Jrag guebhtu gur qrzba gevnyf.
Nyzbfg qvq zr va n qbmra gvzrf bire, ohg V xrcg svtugvat.

Fb vg jbhyq nccrne abg gb or whfg n inzcver guvat.
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-01 13:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
That's our Willow. Kill them all and let um... the Power That Be sort
them out.
And yet another thing in Sunnydale on - in range of - the Hellmouth
meant to bring around the end of the world! Wait, wait, this must be a
retcon! No one's mentioned there was another power there! This must
be evil! Er, sorry.
Willow managed to control Anya the Vengeance Demon, even after Giles
had bound her. That was something to think about for me, too.
It was so sweet how Anya, searching for a little validation herself,
pointed out that she'd changed her hair, too.
Oh man, you would have loved the ranting that went on about Spike
getting his soul! Some people deeply resented that Joss or whomever
went to such great lingths to keep the Spoiler assholes from exposing
that information. In retrospect, when I thought about it, "restore"
really was the key. Spike doesn't need to be turned from anything into
a vampire, he still is. He doesn't need to be made evil, he already
is. So, what can there be to restore? But it is clear, I mean, why
would Spike have a clue just how different having a soul might be from
having a chip? Only Buffy and Angel really know. Well, and Darla.
(How vehement are you about not being spoiled for Angel? Because
really, AOQ, Season 4 of Angel severely overlaps in a few places with
Season 7 of Buffy. And 4 springs powerfully off of 3.)
Whedon upturned the apple carts on BOTH redemptionists and purists who had
raged all season long whether Spike could be redeemed without a soul--by
giving his soul back. Many of the purists were furious that their prime
argument had been undone, since they preferred Spike "pure"--aka evil--while
the redemptionists wanted his quest for redemption to be achieved or at
least the path clearly open only to find our arguments that redemptions
trumps the lack of soul falling flat ... at least in the Buffy Zone.

Purists won the Means side of the argument but Redemptionists won the Ends
side of the argument. A victory bittersweet.
Post by j***@hotmail.com
I've got a fanwank that the Demon in Africa is one of those stories
vampires tell the ones they've sired around the campfire. "So... if
you go to Africa, and battle through terrible agonizing trials... you
can get your soul back." "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!" "Say it again, say it
again! Man, you're giving me the shivers!" "Get your soul back,
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
you shut up already with that stupid EW?" "It's just so gross. I'm
gonna tell Blondie-Bear!" "Who?"
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes in
general, not just souls.

-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-01 13:10:59 UTC
Permalink
<snip yet-another mysteriously-appearing doomsday device ... ala Dracula's
castle>
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Oh man, you would have loved the ranting that went on about Spike
getting his soul! Some people deeply resented that Joss or whomever
went to such great lingths to keep the Spoiler assholes from exposing
that information. In retrospect, when I thought about it, "restore"
really was the key. Spike doesn't need to be turned from anything into
a vampire, he still is. He doesn't need to be made evil, he already
is. So, what can there be to restore? But it is clear, I mean, why
would Spike have a clue just how different having a soul might be from
having a chip? Only Buffy and Angel really know. Well, and Darla.
(How vehement are you about not being spoiled for Angel? Because
really, AOQ, Season 4 of Angel severely overlaps in a few places with
Season 7 of Buffy. And 4 springs powerfully off of 3.)
Whedon upturned the apple carts on BOTH redemptionists and purists who had
raged all season long whether Spike could be redeemed without a soul--by
giving his soul back. Many of the purists were furious that their prime
argument had been undone, since they preferred Spike "pure"--aka
evil--while the redemptionists wanted his quest for redemption to be
achieved or at least the path clearly open only to find our arguments that
redemptions trumps the lack of soul falling flat ... at least in the Buffy
Zone.
Purists won the Means side of the argument but Redemptionists won the Ends
side of the argument. A victory bittersweet.
<snip>

To wit:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer/msg/58eb7e54db4442a5?hl=en&

-- Ken from Chicago
Jeff Jacoby
2006-09-01 19:19:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:07:11 -0500, Ken <***@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Ken from Chicago
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes
Just a matter of being careful...
Post by Ken from Chicago
not just souls.
Ahem.


Jeff
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 00:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Jacoby
[snip]
Post by Ken from Chicago
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes
Just a matter of being careful...
Post by Ken from Chicago
not just souls.
Ahem.
Jeff
Most granting of wishes have very big smallprint and footnotes that can
screw up the wish (e.g., I wish to be rich = you get stolen money, I wish to
be sexy = you end up with STD's, I wish to live forever = you end up in a
coma, etc.)

-- Ken from Chicago
j***@hotmail.com
2006-09-01 23:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by j***@hotmail.com
I've got a fanwank that the Demon in Africa is one of those stories
vampires tell the ones they've sired around the campfire. "So... if
you go to Africa, and battle through terrible agonizing trials... you
can get your soul back." "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!" "Say it again, say it
again! Man, you're giving me the shivers!" "Get your soul back,
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
you shut up already with that stupid EW?" "It's just so gross. I'm
gonna tell Blondie-Bear!" "Who?"
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes in
general, not just souls.
Yes, but we have no evidence that it's about wishes at all. The only
thing we do know for absolutely sure is that winning the trials got
Spike his soul. *shrug* Wishes=fanwank. Soul=proven, but not proven
as absolute.
Ken from Chicago
2006-09-02 00:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by j***@hotmail.com
I've got a fanwank that the Demon in Africa is one of those stories
vampires tell the ones they've sired around the campfire. "So... if
you go to Africa, and battle through terrible agonizing trials... you
can get your soul back." "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!" "Say it again, say it
again! Man, you're giving me the shivers!" "Get your soul back,
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
you shut up already with that stupid EW?" "It's just so gross. I'm
gonna tell Blondie-Bear!" "Who?"
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes in
general, not just souls.
Yes, but we have no evidence that it's about wishes at all. The only
thing we do know for absolutely sure is that winning the trials got
Spike his soul. *shrug* Wishes=fanwank. Soul=proven, but not proven
as absolute.
How much call is there for soulless ones to gain a soul? Bodies, sure, all
the rage. Buffyvamps are demon souls in human bodies.

-- Ken from Chicago
j***@hotmail.com
2006-09-02 03:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken from Chicago
Post by j***@hotmail.com
Post by Ken from Chicago
I agree with another poster that the Trials are about granting wishes in
general, not just souls.
Yes, but we have no evidence that it's about wishes at all. The only
thing we do know for absolutely sure is that winning the trials got
Spike his soul. *shrug* Wishes=fanwank. Soul=proven, but not proven
as absolute.
How much call is there for soulless ones to gain a soul? Bodies, sure, all
the rage. Buffyvamps are demon souls in human bodies.
Still fanwank. And some might want to change their souls like Karen
did, when she tried to exchange her soul for Buffy's so that her father
would take the wrong being back to their home dimension.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-01 19:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
(How vehement are you about not being spoiled for Angel? Because
really, AOQ, Season 4 of Angel severely overlaps in a few places with
Season 7 of Buffy. And 4 springs powerfully off of 3.)
muahahahahah!" "Hey, you know there's this prophecy that the vampire
with a soul will be, like... important in ending the world." "Yeah,
but who wants to go through torture to get a soul." "EEEEEEW!" "Will
because shanshu doesnt say angel
its says a vampire with a soul

there are now two of them

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:16:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hotmail.com
(How vehement are you about not being spoiled for Angel? Because
really, AOQ, Season 4 of Angel severely overlaps in a few places with
Season 7 of Buffy. And 4 springs powerfully off of 3.)
Um, I would prefer not to be spoiled, given that I haven't seen it yet.
I've accepted only getting one side of the story for the time being as
part of the price I pay for having time to sleep.

I propose the adoption of the all-purpose answer "it'd make more sense
if you'd just fucking watch _Angel_ already!" in response to any
questions or concerns I express that'll, well, make more sense. Or
just "ATS!" for short.

-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-02 02:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
I propose the adoption of the all-purpose answer "it'd make more sense
if you'd just fucking watch _Angel_ already!" in response to any
questions or concerns I express that'll, well, make more sense. Or
just "ATS!" for short.
it wont make more sense
its just that unless you watch them in tandem
there are spoilers that go both ways

things happen in sunnydale that show up in la
and things happen in la that then show up sunnydale

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
Mike Zeares
2006-09-01 14:26:51 UTC
Permalink
I just want to make a brief observation about S6 as a whole.
Structurally, it was superior to S5, for a simple reason: the "big
bads" were revealed to the audience early, but weren't revealed to the
gang until later in the season. This is the structure used in S3 with
the Mayor. S5 made the mistake of introducing Glory and Buffy to each
other too early, requiring the writers to come up with reasons why
Glory didn't just start pulling the limbs off Buffy's friends already.
As long as Buffy remains unaware of the villain, putting off their
inevitable battle becomes easier to swallow. I never once thought in
S6 that the writers were just stalling. Smoking crack, maybe, but not
stalling.

I did think several times that they were stretching a story out over
several eps. S6 started and ended that way for me.

-- Mike Zeares
Rincewind
2006-09-01 15:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
What's Giles been up to? I miss the glasses; wonder what's up
there? Hopefully it's a magic thing rather than an
alternative-corrective thing, so that he can get back to giving a good
name to bespectacled heroes in future appearances. The intermittent
magic fights between him and Willow tend to crackle, and it's an
impressively natural reincorporation of a character who's spent
twelve consecutive episodes off-screen. The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why.
It didn't work for me at all, mostly because it was ruined by the subsequent
dialogue and the worst line of the season:
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help when you
need it.

Am I the only one who remembers that Buffy did ask for his help when she
desperately needed it and Giles refused it because chapter 1 of Psychology
for Dummies says that a depressed person with suicidal tendencies and big
responsibilities and powerful enemies and no income must be left alone?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Speaking of that, one place in which the execution falls somewhat flat
is after Willow takes a hit off Giles's power. Hannigan's delivery
on "whoa, head rush" is (appropriately) classic Willow, but the
rest of the scene is forced to have her try to tell and not show so the
audience can follow what she's going through. And since she's
tripping or whatever, she has to do... it... one... word... at...
a... time... while the director hooks the camera up to a vibrator. I
can tell right now that I'm going to find this part excruciating
during re-watches.
Yes, terrible scene. Luckily I never re-watch it...
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way. Another example is the way the two of them start
to get attacked, then things pause long enough for Buffy to very
deliberately ask for help in a mini-speech, and then the monsters are
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay.
They are well-behaved monsters, what's so strange about it?
Not all monsters can be stalking serial killer kitten eating rapists...
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Meanwhile, Buffy also breaks down in (happier) tears and asks Dawn to
forgive her for not putting together the theme of Season Six until the
finale. I dunno. The distinction between living in the world and
avoiding it is worth making, and in principle I'm in favor of it, but
the scene seems overwrought. Why do these epiphanies always have to be
so talky and full of wrenching sobs and hugs and such?
KATE: Yikes. It sounds like you had an epiphany.
ANGEL: I keep saying that. But nobody's listening.

Angel's epiphanies are so much better than Buffy's.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before.
And the show really needed ANOTHER souled vampire...
A very original and daring developement, really. (that was sarcasm, in case
it was not clear)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
AOQ rating: Good
My rating: a low Decent.

Thank you AOQ for another season of interesting and thought-provoking
reviews.
Looking forward for your season 7 reviews.

Rincewind.
--
What I have learned from Buffy:
Fire bad. Tree pretty.
Beer bad.
Marti Noxon very bad.
Elisi
2006-09-01 16:55:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rincewind
It didn't work for me at all, mostly because it was ruined by the subsequent
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help when you
need it.
Am I the only one who remembers that Buffy did ask for his help when she
desperately needed it and Giles refused it because chapter 1 of Psychology
for Dummies says that a depressed person with suicidal tendencies and big
responsibilities and powerful enemies and no income must be left alone?
I used to think that, but I've changed my mind. Here's the whole
conversation:

GILES Can you forgive me?
BUFFY: For what?
GILES: I should never have left.
BUFFY: No. You were right to leave. We're just ... stupid.
GILES: I know you're all stupid. (Buffy smiling) I should never have
abandoned you.
BUFFY: No. Giles, you were right about everything. It is time I was an
adult.
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ... ask for help
when you need it.
BUFFY: Now you tell me.

I think it's actually Giles acknowledging that Buffy was right - it
comes just after he asks for her forgiveness. There's also the way
Buffy says "_Now_ you tell me." - it so obviously implies "You couldn't
have figured that out half a year ago?"

It could have been done better. But it's not awful.
Rincewind
2006-09-01 20:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisi
Post by Rincewind
It didn't work for me at all, mostly because it was ruined by the subsequent
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help when you
need it.
Am I the only one who remembers that Buffy did ask for his help when she
desperately needed it and Giles refused it because chapter 1 of Psychology
for Dummies says that a depressed person with suicidal tendencies and big
responsibilities and powerful enemies and no income must be left alone?
I used to think that, but I've changed my mind. Here's the whole
GILES Can you forgive me?
BUFFY: For what?
GILES: I should never have left.
BUFFY: No. You were right to leave. We're just ... stupid.
GILES: I know you're all stupid. (Buffy smiling) I should never have
abandoned you.
BUFFY: No. Giles, you were right about everything. It is time I was an
adult.
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ... ask for help
when you need it.
BUFFY: Now you tell me.
I think it's actually Giles acknowledging that Buffy was right - it
comes just after he asks for her forgiveness. There's also the way
Buffy says "_Now_ you tell me." - it so obviously implies "You couldn't
have figured that out half a year ago?"
It could have been done better. But it's not awful.
Yeah, maybe you're right.
Probably the fact that Buffy keeps telling that he was right is what gives
me the impression that the writers didn't want to blame Giles as much as I
think he deserved.

Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
WESLEY: Ah. This is perhaps Faith.
(Faith stops and critically looks Wesley up and down.)
FAITH: New Watcher?
BUFFY/GILES: New Watcher.
FAITH: Sweet! He's even younger and cuter than you, G! C'mere, stud, let's
do some "training".
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rincewind
Post by Elisi
Post by Rincewind
It didn't work for me at all, mostly because it was ruined by the subsequent
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help when you
need it.
Am I the only one who remembers that Buffy did ask for his help when she
desperately needed it and Giles refused it because chapter 1 of Psychology
for Dummies says that a depressed person with suicidal tendencies and big
responsibilities and powerful enemies and no income must be left alone?
I used to think that, but I've changed my mind. Here's the whole
GILES Can you forgive me?
BUFFY: For what?
GILES: I should never have left.
BUFFY: No. You were right to leave. We're just ... stupid.
GILES: I know you're all stupid. (Buffy smiling) I should never have
abandoned you.
BUFFY: No. Giles, you were right about everything. It is time I was an
adult.
GILES: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ... ask for help
when you need it.
BUFFY: Now you tell me.
I think it's actually Giles acknowledging that Buffy was right - it
comes just after he asks for her forgiveness. There's also the way
Buffy says "_Now_ you tell me." - it so obviously implies "You couldn't
have figured that out half a year ago?"
It could have been done better. But it's not awful.
Yeah, maybe you're right.
Probably the fact that Buffy keeps telling that he was right is what gives
me the impression that the writers didn't want to blame Giles as much as I
think he deserved.
Yeah, the "you were right" stuff does kind of send the wrong message
given that he was dead wrong. I don't know for certain what the
writers were going for, but let's just pretend that it was a good idea
executd badly; that'd match with other parts of "Grave."

-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-02 02:35:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by Rincewind
Yeah, maybe you're right.
Probably the fact that Buffy keeps telling that he was right is what gives
me the impression that the writers didn't want to blame Giles as much as I
think he deserved.
Yeah, the "you were right" stuff does kind of send the wrong message
given that he was dead wrong. I don't know for certain what the
writers were going for, but let's just pretend that it was a good idea
executd badly; that'd match with other parts of "Grave."
sometimes its hard to tell until its too late to do otherwise

a lot of two year olds toddling around with scrapes on their faces and arms
nobody goes from crawl to perfect walking stance
falling is integral part of the process

and even people who have been walking for decades
still trip and bloody their knees or break their wrists


real life dealing with depression doesnt wrap up neatly
with an epiphany while fighting root monsters in a big hole

but it worked in this series
and even tony head had signed up for another season
its not clear giles couldve helped any better

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
l***@gmail.com
2006-09-01 17:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rincewind
And the show really needed ANOTHER souled vampire...
A very original and daring developement, really. (that was sarcasm, in case
it was not clear)
And the show 'needed' yet another witch when it introduced Tara.
And the show 'needed' yet another slayer when it introduced Kendra and
Faith.
And the show 'needed' yet another watcher when it introduced Wesley...

Want me to go on?

Just because Spike and Angel are both vampires and both souled, doesn't
make them the same.

Part of what's interesting about Spike regaining his soul, is what it
tells about Angel and Angel's flaws...


Lore
Stephen Tempest
2006-09-01 19:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@gmail.com
Just because Spike and Angel are both vampires and both souled, doesn't
make them the same.
Part of what's interesting about Spike regaining his soul, is what it
tells about Angel and Angel's flaws...
Not to mention the opportunity it presumably now gives the writers for
lots of cutting, sarcastic quips about Angel by Spike, and petulant
and cynical remarks about Spike by Angel...

Stephen
Rincewind
2006-09-01 19:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@gmail.com
Part of what's interesting about Spike regaining his soul, is what it
tells about Angel and Angel's flaws...
I'm not going to discuss this in detail because it would become spoilery: we
will have plenty of time to do it in season 7.
I'm just going to tell in a very generic and non spoilery way that anything
there is to know about Angel's flaws was already very evident to me and in
my opinion the
comparison with Spike didn't add much to the picture.
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Rincewind
And the show really needed ANOTHER souled vampire...
A very original and daring developement, really. (that was sarcasm, in case
it was not clear)
And the show 'needed' yet another witch when it introduced Tara.
And the show 'needed' yet another slayer when it introduced Kendra and
Faith.
And the show 'needed' yet another watcher when it introduced Wesley...
Want me to go on?
Just because Spike and Angel are both vampires and both souled, doesn't
make them the same.
There is a big difference between S6 Spike and all those redundant
characters you mentioned: in none of your examples the introduction of the
character happened at the expense of a more original alternative.
The writers have spent two years developing Spike into a very unique
character: a vampire who has CHOSEN to be good (I am obviously simplifying,
but that's the most unique character trait).
Now they have the opportunity to bring him back without chip and show that
he is not "a serial killer in prison" after all, but more like a serial
killer who has chosen to fight his evil urges, which would be an original
character and would allow the writers to explore the not easy (from a
writer's point of view) path of redemption as choice.
Instead they have chosen the easier, well travelled path of redemption
through the acquisition of a soul, which is a legitimate path but is
certainly less original.
Since Joss Whedon has not become famous for his willingness to stick to the
well travelled path, this choice is vaguely disappointing.

Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
CLEM: "Cats? Eww! I am totally a 'dog person.'"
Elisi
2006-09-01 22:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rincewind
Post by l***@gmail.com
Part of what's interesting about Spike regaining his soul, is what it
tells about Angel and Angel's flaws...
I'm not going to discuss this in detail because it would become spoilery: we
will have plenty of time to do it in season 7.
I'm just going to tell in a very generic and non spoilery way that anything
there is to know about Angel's flaws was already very evident to me and in
my opinion the
comparison with Spike didn't add much to the picture.
Post by l***@gmail.com
Post by Rincewind
And the show really needed ANOTHER souled vampire...
A very original and daring developement, really. (that was sarcasm, in case
it was not clear)
And the show 'needed' yet another witch when it introduced Tara.
And the show 'needed' yet another slayer when it introduced Kendra and
Faith.
And the show 'needed' yet another watcher when it introduced Wesley...
Want me to go on?
Just because Spike and Angel are both vampires and both souled, doesn't
make them the same.
There is a big difference between S6 Spike and all those redundant
characters you mentioned: in none of your examples the introduction of the
character happened at the expense of a more original alternative.
The writers have spent two years developing Spike into a very unique
character: a vampire who has CHOSEN to be good (I am obviously simplifying,
but that's the most unique character trait).
Now they have the opportunity to bring him back without chip and show that
he is not "a serial killer in prison" after all, but more like a serial
killer who has chosen to fight his evil urges, which would be an original
character and would allow the writers to explore the not easy (from a
writer's point of view) path of redemption as choice.
Instead they have chosen the easier, well travelled path of redemption
through the acquisition of a soul, which is a legitimate path but is
certainly less original.
Since Joss Whedon has not become famous for his willingness to stick to the
well travelled path, this choice is vaguely disappointing.
Rincewind.
--
CLEM: "Cats? Eww! I am totally a 'dog person.'"
Now I've done this discussion to death with Barb Cummings, so just a
few points. Firstly of course you're obviously entitled to your
opinions and feelings - but I just want to try to explain why I'm glad
they _did_ go with the soul, and why (IMHO) it made for a better story.

See BtVS is all about growing up. That's what all the characters do -
they grow and mature and screw up and continue a little wiser. Spike is
no different - and his growth has been the steepest on the show. From
straight up evil in S2, to getting the chip, to falling for Buffy, he's
changed all the time, yet so slowly that it all felt natural. S6 took
this growth to the extreme: he found out the chip didn't work on Buffy
- and what happened? Did he bite her? Try to kill her? No - and he
certainly could have. The season was an extended trial, to see just how
'good' he could be with all restraints taken away. And well... he
failed in the end. Removing the chip completely would not show us
anything we didn't know already - it would just be re-treading the same
ground. For Spike to move forward, he needed the soul. It was quite
simply the next step on the ladder he's been climbing. The soul doesn't
'fix' him - it quite simply puts him on the same level as the other
characters. And they've really been doing so very well lately...

In S7 he'll meet with different challenges - challenges that he
couldn't face before and we will see how well he copes. Having him jump
through the same hoops he's already been through would not do any good
- he could not grow any further through doing it.

Oh - and saying that 'They already did this with Angel' never made much
sense to me. Spike isn't Angel - why would he react the same way? (But
then the show is all about character development for me - that's what
makes it interesting.)
Don Sample
2006-09-01 16:17:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.
For it to work, he has to take Willow by surprise. If he tells her the
plan, she won't do what he needs her to do. He has to keep up his act
until after she drains his power. And then she runs off on an
unexpected tangent, and that worries him a lot more than explaining what
he had hoped would happen to everyone.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story.
This is neither the first, nor the last time that we've seen that Dawn
is pretty effective in a fight. I just assume that she's been
practising off screen. Maybe Spike gave her lessons last summer, when
they weren't playing gin.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Well, the whole
sequence is that way. Another example is the way the two of them start
to get attacked, then things pause long enough for Buffy to very
deliberately ask for help in a mini-speech, and then the monsters are
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay.
This scene was a budget casualty. Joss blew much of his season budget
on OMWF, and they didn't have enough money left to do the underground
fight the way they really wanted to.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
This makes it hard for me to properly appreciate the
Montage O' Healing And Sunrise.
And L.A. smog. They wanted a broad, bright vista for that last scene,
but the weather wasn't cooperating.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
I'm glad you recognized the misdirect. Some of your comments on the
previous couple of episodes had me a bit worried. There is,
unfortunately, a minority of people who continue to believe that Spike
went to Lurky asking to have the chip removed, and that Lurky tricked
Spike by giving him his soul.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
I really was expecting his story
to cross paths with the others again. That's part of what I mean
when I talk about the open-ended finale, more so than the end of any
other season (even "Primeval"/"Restless," taken together,
brought us to more of a stopping point). Buffy may have finally
emerged from Hell, but Willow is not exactly Normal Again, Anya still
has to figure out where she wants to be in the world, and Spike clearly
has a lot of story left to tell. I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.
When they were picked up by UPN, they got a two season guarantee, so
this is the only season ender that wasn't written so that it could be
series end as well.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
(Harmony) Watcher
2006-09-02 07:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.
For it to work, he has to take Willow by surprise. If he tells her the
plan, she won't do what he needs her to do. He has to keep up his act
until after she drains his power. And then she runs off on an
unexpected tangent, and that worries him a lot more than explaining what
he had hoped would happen to everyone.
Those people from the Coven. What were they thinking? :p

How did Xander know where to find Darth Rosenberg amidst the chaos? Any
theory? Did he overhear Anyanka's conversation with Buffy down below in the
cave? I thought he was elsewhere looking for ropes when Anyanka teleported
into the cave.

--
==Harmony Watcher==
c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
2006-09-01 18:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why. Maybe seeing Buffy
talk about sleeping with Spike with only a minimum of shame or
hesitation, followed by the laughter, feels healing, maybe more so than
the end of the episode.
It works for me too. IMO it looks like Buffy has second thoughts as soon
as the words are out of her mouth, and for a few seconds she's genuinely
scared of Giles's reaction. His laughter, and her own initial surprise
and annoyance, break the ice and bring her back a little closer to her old
self. This is the point when she realizes that her problems (aside from
Tara's death and Dark Willow) aren't as overwhelming as she had thought.
I love her smile when she finally gives in to his mood. To call it
heartwarming seems to cheapen it, but, yeah, it warms my heart. It was a
long time coming. It's sad that it took Giles returning after a long
absence, at a time of crisis, to bring her to this point, but her friends
weren't able to perform that role earlier, and maybe Buffy herself wasn't
ready for it until now. Anyway, like you said, it's a healing moment, and
a thoroughly satisfying one to me. I was seriously surprised when I first
saw Giles burst into laughter, but now it's impossible for me to imagine
another way this scene could have gone and worked even half as well.

Another good point comes later in the conversation, when Buffy asks Giles
why she's back and he doesn't have a clear answer for her. She's
disappointed, bringing the healing to a temporary halt, but that was
inevitable. Giles doesn't have all the answers, and can *anyone* really
answer that question?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.
I think his plan must have been to try to save Willow by any means he
could think of, and "dosing" her was just the last resort. He also
probably thought that the good magic would bring her back all by itself,
and her detour into world-destruction was an unpleasant surprise to him.
(What was rather annoyingly manipulative was Giles telling Anya that he
was dying, then appearing to be just a little sore at the end. Maybe he
got the magic back from Willow, but if so why didn't it heal him
completely?)

Some other random notes while I'm at it. In the Buffyverse, when
something is "apocalyptically stupid," it's not a figure of speech.
Monkeys are referenced again. Buffy's plan to stack the coffins for
height reminds me of one of HP Lovecraft's weaker but more amusing
stories, "In the Vault." Sunrise in Sunnydale looks a lot like high noon.
So there were devastating evil-squishing earthquakes in 1932 *and* 1937?
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. ...
Good points. For me the biggest problem is the way it's set up. The plot
points needed to get Buffy and Dawn in the grave fighting dirt-monsters,
while not totally unbelievable, felt kind of forced to me. On the other
hand, I'm not bothered at all by the heavy and obvious symbolism of Buffy
crawling out of her grave again. Heavy-handed though it is, I like the
way it reverses the grim, disturbing resurrection of Bargaining as a
climax to Buffy's story for the season.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
just time for someone else to step up. Xander certainly does that,
with that kind of insane fearlessness that only he can manage. I think
Brendon is as impressive as his character is on his half of the scene,
totally convincing me that Xander is capable of this kind of
unflinching emotion. He's the heart of the group, and it's easy to
forget that role given the rarity of those special times when his
physical courage matches with knowing when to use it - not as
outlandish as Anya would maybe like to think, though.
The recurring theme of Xander feeling useless, brought up again in the
conversation with Dawn and the first graveyard sceen, is both a natural
continuation of his arc for the season and a vital element in making the
climactic scene succeed so well. At least for me it is. I think the
scene works because Xander goes into it simply as Willow's friend, not as
a hero. And it's also important that he does *not* know about Giles
dosing Willow. He's going on nothing but his heart here. And he seems
perfectly sincere: if he can't talk her out if it, if he really is going
to die, then he honestly wants to be with Willow in his last moments ...
even if she's the one killing him.

Sure, it's melodramatic as hell, and so is Buffy's tearful speech to Dawn
when they realize they're going to live. The latter is also perhaps a
little too wordy. But I don't care. I love both, and I still get
misty-eyed no matter how many times I see them. Same thing with the
Xander/Willow and Buffy/Dawn scenes in that closing montage. The first
one touches me more, as it's healing filled with sadness and regret, while
Buffy and Dawn's walk through the garden is more straightforwardly happy
and hopeful, but it's the combination of the two that really works. We
have loss and growth, sadness and hope all together, the most satisfying
way to end a season centered on our characters' personal lives.

The other parts of the ending (not talking about the very last scene yet)
are less significant but still nice. Jonathan and whatsisface's final
scene brings in a small laugh, and makes sure that their story is neither
left hanging nor given undue emphasis. Giles and Anya's talk in the Magic
Box was maybe slightly too wordy, but it was nice to have our absentee
Watcher and former ex-demon back in the fold. (Note that while our heroes
are split into pairs, none of them is isolated anymore -- except of course
Spike.) Anya seems to be proud of Xander and simultaneously confused and
uncomfortable with herself for feeling that way. She also seems
uncomfortable now with vengeance as a calling.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before.
Ah, yes. Like you say, this leaves the season ending thoroughly
open-ended. There are endless questions we can chew over, if so inclined.
To start with, *what* did Spike ask the demon for? Just because he got
a soul doesn't mean that's what he requested. Was it a soul, a
chipectomy, a generic "make me what I was before," or perhaps a slightly
more specific "make me what I was so Buffy will get what she deserves"?
Each of which raises more questions: if he wanted a chipectomy, was it to
be a true vampire again, or to prove that he could be good without a chip?
If he specified being able to give Buffy "what she deserves," will he like
what that turns out to be? At this point, the only thing we know for sure
is that wishes granted *never* turn out the way the wisher expects.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
AOQ rating: Good
Some great stuff, but it's held back from Excellence by clumsy plot
contrivances. I too will say Good.

I have to say, these AOQ threads have given me a whole new appreciation
for season 6 as a whole. For one thing, it made me re-watch the whole
season in order for the first time in two or three years. The weak period
I always saw in Wrecked through Hell's Bells is still there, but it
doesn't seem as weak now. And some thoughtful comments that AOQ and
others posted have made me see some things in a new light. So, thanks,
everyone.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
2) "After Life" - Good
A high Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
3) "Flooded" - Decent
Decent, though a fairly high one.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
4) "Life Serial" - Good
Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
5) "All The Way" - Good
A low Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
Excellent, maybe Superlative.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
8) "Smashed" - Decent
Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
9) "Wrecked" - Good
A low Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
10) "Gone" - Decent
Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
11) "Doublemeat Palace" - Decent
A defiant Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
12) "Dead Things" - Good
A low Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
13) "Older And Far Away" - Good
Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
14) "As You Were" - Decent
Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
15) "Hell's Bells" - Weak
Decent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
16) "Normal Again" - Excellent
Excellent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
17) "Entropy" - Decent
A solid Good.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
18) "Seeing Red" - Good
Excellent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
19) "Villains" - Good
A borderline Excellent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
20) "Two To Go" - Excellent
Another borderline Excellent.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
21) "Grave" - Good]
Good.

All the qualifiers and uncertain ratings make it impossible to quantify my
ratings, and I'm comfortable with that.


--Chris

______________________________________________________________________
chrisg [at] gwu.edu On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
Don Sample
2006-09-01 18:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
So there were devastating evil-squishing earthquakes in 1932 *and* 1937?
I think that the Mayor was busy quashing anything with apocalyptic
ambitions, until he could have his ascension.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
I think his plan must have been to try to save Willow by any means he
could think of, and "dosing" her was just the last resort. He also
probably thought that the good magic would bring her back all by itself,
and her detour into world-destruction was an unpleasant surprise to him.
The irony being that making her care more about people is what makes
her world-destroyingly dangerous. I kinda like that. Maybe she could
appreciate life more after spending a year working at DmP and screwing
a vampire (Harmony?)...
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
Buffy's plan to stack the coffins for
height reminds me of one of HP Lovecraft's weaker but more amusing
stories, "In the Vault." Sunrise in Sunnydale looks a lot like high noon.
So there were devastating evil-squishing earthquakes in 1932 *and* 1937?
Now I'm having a vision of the Master's skeleton reassembling itself to
bite off Buffy's ankles.
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
All the qualifiers and uncertain ratings make it impossible to quantify my
ratings, and I'm comfortable with that.
One rating system (or even having a rating system at all) does not fit
all.

-AOQ
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-02 02:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Now I'm having a vision of the Master's skeleton reassembling itself to
bite off Buffy's ankles.
i thought you didnt want spoilers about the masters regeneration


by the way
regarding spike and what it means to be a human
theres also the outer limits episode demon with a glass hand
starring ronert culp amd arlene martel

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
(Harmony) Watcher
2006-09-02 07:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
I think his plan must have been to try to save Willow by any means he
could think of, and "dosing" her was just the last resort. He also
probably thought that the good magic would bring her back all by itself,
and her detour into world-destruction was an unpleasant surprise to him.
The irony being that making her care more about people is what makes
her world-destroyingly dangerous. I kinda like that. Maybe she could
appreciate life more after spending a year working at DmP and screwing
a vampire (Harmony?)...
Hey! Only in your dreams. OK, maybe you haven't heard my stories about
Willow, Xander and Harmony in kindergarten. <fanfic>They used to be
best-pals, you know. But Willow made Harmony's crayons all bendy (with
magick, of course). And Xander sided with Willow. And that's why they had
been pulling each other's hair ever since.</fanfic> Hmm, .. thinking ...
thinking ... but don't give Rowan any more funny ideas, :p
Mel
2006-09-02 01:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@removethistoreply.gwu.edu
Good points. For me the biggest problem is the way it's set up. The plot
points needed to get Buffy and Dawn in the grave fighting dirt-monsters,
while not totally unbelievable, felt kind of forced to me. On the other
hand, I'm not bothered at all by the heavy and obvious symbolism of Buffy
crawling out of her grave again. Heavy-handed though it is, I like the
way it reverses the grim, disturbing resurrection of Bargaining as a
climax to Buffy's story for the season.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
just time for someone else to step up. Xander certainly does that,
with that kind of insane fearlessness that only he can manage. I think
Brendon is as impressive as his character is on his half of the scene,
totally convincing me that Xander is capable of this kind of
unflinching emotion. He's the heart of the group, and it's easy to
forget that role given the rarity of those special times when his
physical courage matches with knowing when to use it - not as
outlandish as Anya would maybe like to think, though.
The recurring theme of Xander feeling useless, brought up again in the
conversation with Dawn and the first graveyard sceen, is both a natural
continuation of his arc for the season and a vital element in making the
climactic scene succeed so well. At least for me it is. I think the
scene works because Xander goes into it simply as Willow's friend, not as
a hero. And it's also important that he does *not* know about Giles
dosing Willow. He's going on nothing but his heart here. And he seems
perfectly sincere: if he can't talk her out if it, if he really is going
to die, then he honestly wants to be with Willow in his last moments ...
even if she's the one killing him.
I like the contrast between Xander repeatedly telling Willow he loves
her and having it draw her back to her humanity while when he repeatedly
tells Anya he loves her all it does is piss her off more and more,
eventually into vengeance wishing him out of existence.



Mel
Malsperanza
2006-09-01 19:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
Another well-crafted review, thanks!

[much snippage--lots to respond to, but I'll cut to a few items til I
have a chance to catch up on all comments]
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven,"
I must say, the late appearance of The Coven, replacing the discredited
Council, struck me as a total plot bunny (the kind Anya fearz). The
writers cooked up The Coven because it would take too much trouble and
backstory to recover the Council as an entity of value and interest.
This is where serial writing, even by the same group of writers, is
often flawed. Ultimately, I don't think it matters too much... Coven,
Council, Whatever: bunch a witchy Brits doin witchy whatnot over thar
in Britain.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
It is odd seeing Buffy not be the final hero of the day.
In some sense, the final heroic confrontation with Evil happened when
Warren was killed. And one could argue that Buffy *was* the hero there,
because she refused to succumb to Slayer-Mentality, when everyone
around her wanted Warren to Die Bigtime. Die Die Die. She stood fast
for human justice. She was instrumental in ensuring that the Other Two
would not also be slaughtered vengefully. The Nerd Trio were s6's Big
Bad; once Warren was dead, the season's Big Bad arc was essentially
done. The Evil!Willow story is--in a way--the beginning of s7, arriving
a little early.

The point I'm aiming for here is that every other season closed with
the Defeat of the Big Bad. S6 does not, partly because the Big Bad is
not really otherworldly or magical or demonic, but all-too-human, and
all too similar to the sorts of evils we normal folks do battle with,
in real life. (Hence, perhaps, all the attempts in fandom to compare
Buffyverse Evil!Badguys to real life serial killers, war criminals,
mass murderers, and the like.) To my mind the comparison is misdirected
*except* in the case of Warren & his 2 buddies, because they are human.
Tara dies by gunshot, not by magic.

So Warren dies, horribly. The Other Two escape, at least for now. And
we are left at season's end with three totally new ideas:

1. Willow. Lesson: A Goodguy, one of the core Scooby group, can turn
truly evil--can lose her soul. It can happen, it does (nearly) happen.
Anya turns good/human, and then is at risk of backsliding; Faith
teeters on the edge of evil; but Willow is the first time someone
marked as Truly Good turns that bad--turns Big Bad.

2. Buffy. We now realize that all through s6 Buffy was fighting not to
lose her soul too. We only really *see* that when we see how close
Willow came to becoming Unsouled.

3. Spike. If a human being can lose her soul, then indeed a vampire can
gain his. Someone asked in a previous thread, What does Spike get from
the Buffy liaison in s6? During his complicated sexual liaison with
Buffy throughout the season, Spike is the only one who can see--really
see--the struggle Buffy is having to save her soul. He doesn't see all
of it (it's hard for him to understand that *he himself* symbolizes her
own unsouling, until the AR explains it to him).

All three of these reveals are in the context of Warren as Big Bad.
Warren is a human being who has become unsouled without a) dying or b)
becomeing a vampire. He is as demonic, as monstrous as any filthy
vampire in the canon, but he isn't dead and he isn't magical (except to
the extent that he has acquired a number of magical skills). He isn't
in any sense otherworldly.

So it's important for s6 that Warren's story ends before the season
ends. Once Warren is dead, we are surprised to discover that the season
isn't over. Suddenly, after Warren's death, Willow's Darkness expands
beyond revenge on him to a weird general idea that the world must be
destroyed because it is all just too awful and miserable and full of
Warrens to be redeemable. Dark Willow thinks the world as a whole
cannot be redeemed, and so she implements her scorched earth policy.
She only thinks this because she has become about 80% unsouled. It
takes Giles to reinsert some soul into her, and Xander to awaken that
reinserted soul--two important but secondary characters.

Meanwhile the (now) two main characters, Buffy and Spike, are off on
the sidelines, recuperating their own souls. In short (hah), Buffy,
Spike, and Willow are each working to regain their own human souls.
Each does it, in the nick of time. And there the season ends. One might
even imagine that the series could end here--and the only reason it
doesn't is because of an artificially instilled *sense* of unfinished
business, loose threads.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Say what you will about Xander as a "best friend," but he seems to
take attempts to kill him remarkably well, as a general rule.
Emile Durkheim in his seminal study of suicide, idenfies several
different kinds of suicide. Buffy is suicidal because she is depressed
and overwhelmed; so (more or less) is Willow. Spike is willing to
*risk* his own death because he sees a goal for himself that is worth
that risk. But Xander is the person who -- more than once in BtVS -- is
willing to carry out what Durkheim calls altruistic suicide: the
soldier who falls on a grenade so that his companions will survive is
the classic example. Xander doesn't phrase it that way; what he says
is, "If everyone is going to die and the world is going to end, I want
to die with someone I love, and that's you." Xander's "suicide attempt"
(so to speak) is the only one that is not, in its essence, an act of
detachment from others, but an act of attachment to others. He loves,
therefore he will form and sustain bonds, even in the face of
annihilation. All the other suicides and suicide attempts we've seen in
BtVS (especially the many in s6) have been detachments, divorces,
departures.

If you look at it that way, Xander's act on the mountaintop is a
supremely potent gesture, because it expresses faith in, and commitment
to, human bonds, even on the brink of destruction. In essence, this is
what the Slayer's credo has been throughout time. But Buffy and Willow,
who til now have been the moral core of the Scoobies (and therefore of
the Slayer's job) have both lost that power.

Xander isn't one of my favorite characters, and I don't much admire the
actor. And the scene, as written and performed, is maudlin to the point
of insulin overdose. (Yellow crayon? Gaah.) But the point holds
nonetheless.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Meanwhile, Buffy also breaks down in (happier) tears and asks Dawn to
forgive her for not putting together the theme of Season Six until the
finale. I dunno. The distinction between living in the world and
avoiding it is worth making, and in principle I'm in favor of it, but
the scene seems overwrought.
Not very well written, and not particularly well executed. Both women
suddenly abandon all of Whedon's grrl-power principles to behave like
typical TV girly girls. Most irritating. Also, it doesn't feel "earned"
to me. Buffy has been getting the message for months that the World Is
Beautiful and Love Is Real. Why she grasps that now is unclear.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect.
The Whopping Misdirect of All Time.

I'm with Elisi on this one: I loved it. I didn't see it coming, I
wasn't spoiled for it, and I was totally thrilled--especially since the
season ends without our knowing if Spike wanted his soul back or merely
expressed himself carelessly. (Not for the first time, Our Spike being
the wordsmith he is.)

It would not be beyond the powers of Scaly Glowing-Eyed Demon Guy to
deliberately misunderstand Spike's "What I came for." Indeed, it would
be rather Delphic-Oracle-Greek-Tragedyish: Oracle to Xerxes the
Persian: "If you invade Greece, a great empire will fall." Xerxes to
his Persian Army: "We're cool! The Oracle says if we invade Greece, the
Greek empire will fall! Yay! Let's do it!"

And of course this explains why Spike has been kept off-camera for the
last 3 episodes: so that we wouldn't begin to guess what he (maybe)
really had in mind.

After all, getting his soul back was, for Angel, the worst imaginable
torture: eternal guilt, eternal remorse, eternal unfulfillable desire.
Welcome to the human race, Spike. And welcome back, Buffy.

~Mal
George W Harris
2006-09-02 03:17:07 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Sep 2006 12:20:23 -0700, "Malsperanza" <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:

:The point I'm aiming for here is that every other season closed with
:the Defeat of the Big Bad.

Well, except for season four.
--
e^(i*pi)+1=0

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Ari
2006-09-01 19:55:02 UTC
Permalink
The scene in which he and Buffy break down laughing while recounting
the deeply hilarious events of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why.
Maybe seeing Buffytalk about sleeping with Spike with only a minimum of
shame or hesitation, followed by the laughter, feels healing, maybe more so
than the end of the episode.
Based on both past and future characterization, the laughter seems
completely OOC to me, one of them more so than the other. And that's
all I'm going to say about that.
Say what you will about Xander as a "best friend," but he seems to
take attempts to kill him remarkably well, as a general rule.
Regardless of how I feel about him as a best friend to Buffy (mofo had
no business taking it upon himself to tell HER sister that Spike tried
to rape her), all and all I don't think he's a bad person and I adore
how he so clearly loves Willow unconditionally. Cheesy as it is, the
yellow crayon speech is one of the few moments on the show that for
some reason manages to penetrate my heart. *squish* Come to think of
it, if it's not too spoilery to say about the upcoming season, Xander
actually features twice in scenes that emotionally touches me. In fact
one of them got me crying, and even on repeated viewings I still tear
up every single time I've watched it. NB certainly has a knack for
delivering the heartfelt, I'll give him that much.

As a whole I'd rank this episode as one of the most boring if not the
worst finale of BTVS ever. So disappointing because Villains really
succeeded to build up my excitement for the last two episodes. :( Oh
well, no matter how many people diss it, still love season 6 like a
mother loves her fat, ugly baby.
Rincewind
2006-09-01 20:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ari
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Say what you will about Xander as a "best friend," but he seems to
take attempts to kill him remarkably well, as a general rule.
Regardless of how I feel about him as a best friend to Buffy (mofo had
no business taking it upon himself to tell HER sister that Spike tried
to rape her),...
I totally agree on that.
Post by Ari
... all and all I don't think he's a bad person and I adore
how he so clearly loves Willow unconditionally. Cheesy as it is, the
yellow crayon speech is one of the few moments on the show that for
some reason manages to penetrate my heart. *squish* Come to think of
it, if it's not too spoilery to say about the upcoming season, Xander
actually features twice in scenes that emotionally touches me. In fact
one of them got me crying, and even on repeated viewings I still tear
up every single time I've watched it.
Are you referring to gur svany fcrrpu gb Qnja va Cbgragvny naq gur "Yrg zr
gryy lbh fbzrguvat nobhg Ohssl" fcrrpu gb gur cbgragvnyf orsber gurve svefg
onggyr va Qvegl Tveyf?
If you are then I agree on that too.


Rincewind.
--
Lines you'll never hear on Buffy:
BEN: I'm Glory?
Ari
2006-09-02 01:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rincewind
Are you referring to gur svany fcrrpu gb Qnja va Cbgragvny naq gur "Yrg zr
gryy lbh fbzrguvat nobhg Ohssl" fcrrpu gb gur cbgragvnyf orsber gurve svefg
onggyr va Qvegl Tveyf?
If you are then I agree on that too.
You guessed the first one right. But the one that brought out the
waterworks is ... ng gur raq bs Frysyrff. Grpuavpnyyl gung jnf zber bs
na Naln zbzrag, ohg V guvax Knaqre qrfreirf znwbe fhccbegvat ebyr
cebcf. Gung'f gur fprar jurer V svanyyl tbg gubfr gjb nf n pbhcyr.
George W Harris
2006-09-02 03:17:07 UTC
Permalink
On 1 Sep 2006 12:55:02 -0700, "Ari" <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

:Come to think of
:it, if it's not too spoilery to say about the upcoming season, Xander
:actually features twice in scenes that emotionally touches me.

Gryyvat Qnja fur'f rkgenbeqvanel, naq yrpghevat
gur cbgragvnyf nobhg Ohssl?
--
They say there's air in your lungs that's been there for years.

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.
Stephen Tempest
2006-09-01 20:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The one thing I can be sure of is the profound disappointment that came
from seeing that the DVD included a commentary from David and James
Contner, and realizing that this would be the first BTVS finale not to
be written and directed by the series creator, who was I guess off
creating another series.
If it's any comfort to you, Xander's speech to Willow on Kingman's
Bluff *was* written by Joss. Also, the idea that Buffy would fall
into a grave, then climb out of it for the finale, came from Joss. (DF
originally had her falling into a sewer, which would have had a whole
different symbolism...)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.
Well, Willow draining his power was apparently a fatal* experience for
him, so he's bound to look a little unhappy afterwards... [*or it
would have been... presumably when her hair turned back to red she
'gave the power back', at least enough to revive him]

My impression was that he hoped to be able to confine and restrain
her, and the boobytrapped power was a weapon of last resort in case
that failed.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
I noticed that Willow didn't entirely go
from Dark to Evil until after absorbing Rack last episode. This time,
as soon as she takes in the powers that Giles has borrowed, she's all
about compassion for others' pain, and trying to "fix" it.
She's still Willow, though. Her impatience and irritation with Dawn;
her eagerness to prove herself Buffy's equal; her resentment and
desire to supplant Giles... don't you think these are feelings Willow
has been experiencing, and suppressing, all along? Negative emotions
are just a part of being human, after all.

Hazel-eyed Willow hated to see other people get hurt, so she
suppressed all those negative emotions. Now black-eyed Willow feels
powerful enough that she doesn't have to control her negative emotions
any more. Yes, I think the dark magic she absorbs is influencing her
towards evil; but *blaming* the dark magic alone would be a cop-out.

Compare the way a vampire would just be a mindless feeding animal
without a human consciousness to guide it into active evil. The dark
magic inclines Willow to evil, but it's her own weaknesses that drive
her to vent six years (or 20 years) of resentment out on her friends.
Just as the white magic drives her to good, but Willow's despair and
self-hatred makes her interpret the best way to do this as ending
everybody's suffering. Again, it's intellectual arrogance: Willow has
always thought that the rules don't apply to her because she knows
what she's doing, knows what's best for other people, and is impatient
at having to explain things to the slower folk around her. Now, she's
powerful enough not to worry about them.

This is perhaps the only apocalypse we've seen on the show that was
done for our own good...

(nygubhtu Wnfzvar jvyy gel zhpu gur fnzr va N4)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Things I've learned: the only way to dodge a glowing ball of fire is
to have someone shove you a few inches. Otherwise, you're powerless
to escape. That lesson certainly ought to be inapplicable elsewhere in
life.
Willow's still having fun. She knew exactly how to push Buffy's
buttons, and her evil-villain speech was just so obviously a
caricature ("Fly, my pretty, fly"??) - but Buffy couldn't ignore it,
because even when she's joking around, Willow is deadly.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Another example is the way the two of them start
to get attacked, then things pause long enough for Buffy to very
deliberately ask for help in a mini-speech, and then the monsters are
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay.
Or Willow's okay. After all, she's stage-managing the whole battle
because she thinks it's not fair on Buffy to not let her go out
fighting. So of course she'd make the monsters pause while Buffy
gives her heroic soliloquy, or maybe says a few puns. It's the least
she can do for her best friend, before she kills her.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Also, the
rising-from-the-grave imagery could stand a little less bluntness.
Blame Joss. :)

Also, note that this is the second season finale to end with a Sarah
McLachlan song.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The second of
the three strange things I mentioned in the intro is that Willow could
in fact be stopped or redeemed this way. Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year, and given that any
scene like this is going to pale next to FxF... well, I can see why
some viewers might have a problem with it, or think the show goes too
easy on her, or is too melodramatic. That's because I kinda feel like
I "should" too, but I don't. I don't know if it's the power
of context, writing, or acting, but this part has the sheer force of
something on its side. One has to wonder how strong her "spark of
humanity" was: it does seem either convenient or not-coincidental
that she would suggest that "you're going to stop me by telling me
you love me?" Kinda handing Xander the key to do exactly that.
Like I'm implying above: I don't think this is just Willow gone evil,
or Willow possessed by dark magic. This is Willow who, first, has had
her life shattered and sees little reason to go on, and is filled with
a massive, generalised anger at the world (and all that's in it) which
let Tara die; and secondly, a Willow who now has so much power that
she no longer worries about the consequences of expressing her
negative emotions.

In other words, she's hugely changed; but at the core, she's still
Willow. And I'm not sure that melodramatic "I'm evil, I'm bad, kill
me, just kill me" sobbing would be appropriate. What we see her,
quite simply, is Willow finally letting herself grieve for Tara.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before.
Damn. Who opened that can? - there's worms *everywhere*.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.
I believe this was the first (and only) season finale where Mutant
Enemy had a solid, cast-iron guarantee that there would be another
season afterwards... so they could write it while leaving storylines
open.


Stephen
Don Sample
2006-09-01 20:28:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
Well, Willow draining his power was apparently a fatal* experience for
him, so he's bound to look a little unhappy afterwards... [*or it
would have been... presumably when her hair turned back to red she
'gave the power back', at least enough to revive him]
That Giles might have been fatally injured was only conjecture on Anya's
part. It turned out that she was wrong.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
vague disclaimer
2006-09-01 21:02:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Stephen Tempest
Well, Willow draining his power was apparently a fatal* experience for
him, so he's bound to look a little unhappy afterwards... [*or it
would have been... presumably when her hair turned back to red she
'gave the power back', at least enough to revive him]
That Giles might have been fatally injured was only conjecture on Anya's
part. It turned out that she was wrong.
ANYA: Giles... you have to rest.

GILES: Silly girl. I'm dying.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
One Bit Shy
2006-09-01 22:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
This is perhaps the only apocalypse we've seen on the show that was
done for our own good...
In a collection of really superb postings on this episode (and season), I
think this is my favorite line.

OBS
Michael Ikeda
2006-09-01 22:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
I believe this was the first (and only) season finale where
Mutant Enemy had a solid, cast-iron guarantee that there would
be another season afterwards... so they could write it while
leaving storylines open.
Not really. There was no sane doubt that there would be at least one
more season when the S2, S3, and S4 finales were being written.

And there really wasn't much doubt that there would be another season
when the S5 finale was being written. There may have been some
question as to what network would be airing that season.
--
Michael Ikeda ***@erols.com
"Telling a statistician not to use sampling is like telling an
astronomer they can't say there is a moon and stars"
Lynne Billard, past president American Statistical Association
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 01:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Tempest
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The one thing I can be sure of is the profound disappointment that came
from seeing that the DVD included a commentary from David and James
Contner, and realizing that this would be the first BTVS finale not to
be written and directed by the series creator, who was I guess off
creating another series.
If it's any comfort to you, Xander's speech to Willow on Kingman's
Bluff *was* written by Joss. Also, the idea that Buffy would fall
into a grave, then climb out of it for the finale, came from Joss. (DF
originally had her falling into a sewer, which would have had a whole
different symbolism...)
Good to know, and heh, respectively.
Post by Stephen Tempest
She's still Willow, though. Her impatience and irritation with Dawn;
her eagerness to prove herself Buffy's equal; her resentment and
desire to supplant Giles... don't you think these are feelings Willow
has been experiencing, and suppressing, all along?
Absolutely. That's what I was going for with the comment about
bringing out different aspects of the character. Everything here comes
from Willow in some capacity.

-AOQ
One Bit Shy
2006-09-01 20:29:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
As I pull myself out of the pit of staring at the computer screen,
facing the bright sunrise of taking a break from posting reviews, I'm
not quite sure if things should be this way. But they seem right.
"Grave" is unexpected for me; it didn't seem like the direction
things were going, although it makes some sense in retrospect. The
"obvious" way things were going was towards something like "Two
To Go," with an ending five minutes later. That was the standard big
confrontation, so the story was now free to go somewhere else for the
second half of the finale. Between Buffy saving herself but not really
the world, Willow's recovery, and the open-endedness, I'm not quite
sure yet what to make of it all. All of these things threw me a
little, and I think I'm coming to terms with them now. But not sure.
The short of it is that I think you mostly got it right however tentative
your feelings are. And just the fact that the episode managed to surprise
you with its choices, but still seeming right, suggests to me how generally
effective it was.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The intermittent
magic fights between him and Willow tend to crackle, and it's an
impressively natural reincorporation of a character who's spent
twelve consecutive episodes off-screen.
Buffy: I don't want to fight you anymore.
Willow: I don't want to fight you either. (looking at Giles) I wanna fight
him.

I just love that moment. Whatever else is going on, Willow is having a ball
being the big bad. Willow's inferiority complex about being "just Willow"
is hammered at in a number of ways. But it's not all about rejecting her
old self. There's a lot she digs about being powerful in its own right.

In any case, I think there's a subtle parallel between Willow's fight with
Giles and the conversation Giles has with Buffy. Much of that conversation
is about Buffy becoming an adult. Well, so's the fight. "Daddy's home. I'm
in wicked trouble now." Giles showing up right then thrills Willow, because
Giles more than anyone is who she wants to show how grown up she's become.
"You called me a rank, arrogant amateur. Well buckle up, Rupert... 'Cause
I've turned pro."

I don't personally think that the becoming an adult theme is one of the
stronger or better realized themes of the year, but it is there. And this
is one of the better applications of it. Whatever happens to our characters
after this, it's going to be a lot harder to think of them as teens anymore.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The scene in which he and
Buffy break down laughing while recounting the deeply hilarious events
of S6 works for me, and I don't really know why. Maybe seeing Buffy
talk about sleeping with Spike with only a minimum of shame or
hesitation, followed by the laughter, feels healing, maybe more so than
the end of the episode.
A real highlight of the show for me. Back in Entropy there's a scene
between Tara and Willow - just before Anya shows up - where Tara is laughing
at the wild stories Willow is telling her about the time she's been away.

Willow: Oh, did I tell you about the demon eggs?
Tara: See, now, now I know you're just trying to make me jealous.

Barely believable - more like tales told to titillate. The same thing is
happening to Giles. It's just too absurdly out there. Capping it with
Buffy sleeping with Spike - and Buffy pausing to peer at Giles to see how he
takes it - is too much. The ridiculousness of it all wins out.

What's great about it is that's exactly what Buffy needs. The ability to
see the humor of it all. This is the point in her long climb back to health
when she puts what happened behind her. (Mostly) It's the old saw that one
day you'll be able to look back on this and laugh. Well, she's laughing
now. Which means she's looking back. Has put some distance between herself
and her depression. The last step will be the Dawn scenes when she starts
looking ahead - and literally crawls out of the earth to complete the
climbing from the grave metaphor.

But the scene is not all wonderful. Giles pretty much gave Buffy all he had
by helping her find the humor. After that... Buffy is generous in
forgiving Giles for leaving and confessing that she did indeed need to learn
to stand on her own as an adult. But that's really no more relevant now
than it was then. Even as she agrees to that, she also says that she wasn't
ready because of the coming back from the dead thing. In other words,
growing up wasn't the problem. And then there's this...

Giles: Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ... ask for help when
you need it.
Buffy: Now you tell me.

I don't know about you, but that's the one moment in his return that made me
want to clock Giles. Buffy is rather nicer in her response, but think about
it. She did ask for help. She pleaded for it. Somehow I suspect that
Buffy's response is a little more pointed than the tone alone indicates.
Which leads into the other main moment of their conversation. Buffy asking
why she's back. Why isn't she still dead? Giles tries the only thing he
knows - that he's ever known - that Buffy has a calling. But Buffy
dismisses that out of hand - her time was done. And repeats the question.
Giles has no response.

That pretty much ends their conversation. After that, they move to Willow
and then Willow gets wild again. As an ending, that seems rather
uncomfortable to me, suggesting that Giles may not have a lot to offer Buffy
anymore - that their split earlier in the season isn't any more resolved
than any of the other character issues left kind of hanging at the end of
this episode.

But it also reminds me of Buffy's central confusion. Why is she still here?
She's not in deep depression over it anymore, but she still doesn't know.
What's the answer? Was Giles actually right - that it's all about her
calling? Or was the answer shown by Buffy's epiphany concerning Dawn? Or
is it something else less obvious - maybe not yet shown? Or is this one of
those questions that doesn't have an answer - a case where the lesson is
accepting that life does not inherently have purpose? That if you want
purpose, you have to make it.

Something to ponder. I'm not choosing an answer - though I do believe the
series does.

The conversation between Giles and Buffy is my favorite part of the episode
aside from Xander's intervention.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
As it turns out, Rupert's benefactors are
"The Coven," and his powers have a purpose which he doesn't
mention because, well, it's in the script. The revelation there is a
bit surprising because of manipulative rather than good writing -
I'd expected that he'd meant to deliver some kind of sabotage, then
was thrown a little when he acted as if Willow draining him was an
unexpected development.
I think it largely was unexpected - at best a solution of last resort. I
think Rupert hoped to insert it into Willow differently. At best, in a
controlled manner while she was in the binding field. At worst, a smaller
dose. But circumstances led to the most extreme result.

His tactical planning is never revealed - and probably included a lot
playing it by ear anyway - but somehow I doubt the plan all along was to be
beaten senseless and then be sucked dry. (Although, I admit, the history of
Giles in BtVS is to be repeatedly knocked out and abused. Maybe he finally
incorporated that inevitability into a strategy.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Speaking of that, one place in which the execution falls somewhat flat
is after Willow takes a hit off Giles's power. Hannigan's delivery
on "whoa, head rush" is (appropriately) classic Willow, but the
rest of the scene is forced to have her try to tell and not show so the
audience can follow what she's going through. And since she's
tripping or whatever, she has to do... it... one... word... at...
a... time... while the director hooks the camera up to a vibrator. I
can tell right now that I'm going to find this part excruciating
during re-watches.
I know what you're saying - and saw pretty much the same thing the first
time I saw it too. But for whatever reason, I don't notice it any more on
repeat views. This last view I was pondering how the depiction connected to
the drug imagery of Wrecked, yet moved elsewhere. I suspect it has become a
moment in the episode to just think about stuff without feeling like I'm
missing something not watching intently.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The idea behind it does raise a few interesting
points. One thing that seems to be going on in the background is magic
as almost a living thing with inherent qualities. Or, more accurately,
different types of magic bring out different aspects of what was inside
the spellcaster all along. I noticed that Willow didn't entirely go
from Dark to Evil until after absorbing Rack last episode. This time,
as soon as she takes in the powers that Giles has borrowed, she's all
about compassion for others' pain, and trying to "fix" it.
Willow trying to use magic to make things better always works out so
well, too. Actually the fact that she doesn't end up killing any
innocent people means that things worked out better than anyone had any
right to hope, so...
That's very good. A lot more than I got out of it first veiw. (Though I
had a very weak understanding first time through of how inadequate the drug
analogy was by itself.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The stuff in the titular grave also has some very worthwhile ideas that
suffer some in execution. Take, for example, Buffy running to help
Dawn, only to find that she's doing quite well for herself with the
sword-swingin'. Nice thought, but, uh, "what? You think I never
watched you?" Now, generally speaking, one does not learn
swordsmanship by watching, and someone with no training who's not a
supernatural creature could not pull that off. One of the more blatant
examples of the show's sometimes unfortunate tendency to go for the
symbolism at the expense of the literal story. Well, the whole
sequence is that way. Another example is the way the two of them start
to get attacked, then things pause long enough for Buffy to very
deliberately ask for help in a mini-speech, and then the monsters are
ready to fight again once they have the script's okay. Also, the
rising-from-the-grave imagery could stand a little less bluntness.
Pretty much my reaction too. The spirit of their scenes is spot on. But
the depiction not so great. I was trying to decide how much of this is
SMG's performance - who has been known to sell the difficult - and can't
quite decide. I think she's clearly burdened with overdone dialog, so it's
not all her. And she does put in an effort to sell it. But I still sense
that something more or different could have been done. (Her performance
with Giles is very good though.)

These scenes by themselves drag the episode ranking down from Excellent for
me. It's a shame, 'cause I think the sentiments are all worthy, well
fitting both the episode and the season.

Perhaps the real problem is that the whole setup is forced. Since Buffy
isn't the hero, but is still the star, and there are still things to do with
her to complete the season arc, they constructed a really artificial final
battle for her.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
It is odd seeing Buffy not be the final hero of the day. Since S6 has
been the most insular of all so far, maybe it's to be expected that
the internal issues would be more important for her. Or maybe it's
just time for someone else to step up.
All true enough. Another reason I think that it fits this time around is
that this is also the one season that's not really about being The Slayer.
While being The Slayer could be considered the historic cause of what
happens to Buffy this season, hardly any of the tension for her during the
season has to do with her calling. If anything, being The Slayer is the
easy part. So there's no demand for her to be the hero this time.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Xander certainly does that,
with that kind of insane fearlessness that only he can manage. I think
Brendon is as impressive as his character is on his half of the scene,
totally convincing me that Xander is capable of this kind of
unflinching emotion. He's the heart of the group, and it's easy to
forget that role given the rarity of those special times when his
physical courage matches with knowing when to use it - not as
outlandish as Anya would maybe like to think, though.
But it's still Xander's great redemption. While the season does close with
a lot of things left unresolved, Xander and Buffy both do come to a
respectably comfortable conclusion.

I love watching Anya's face when Giles tells her that Xander saved the
world. I like how you say that Anya would maybe like to think it's
outlandish, since she would also maybe like to think that it's not. And I
suspect part of her reaction to the news includes remembering Xander's best
qualities.

Anyway, yeah, this is a Xander high point for sure. Nobody else could pull
off the yellow crayon story. But he of the Snoopy dance sells it
completely.

(So, do you think maybe now they really should get together as a couple
finally for real? I mean we *know* Willow's really bi-. <g>)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
The second of
the three strange things I mentioned in the intro is that Willow could
in fact be stopped or redeemed this way. Especially given that we've
seen her collapse crying once already this year, and given that any
scene like this is going to pale next to FxF... well, I can see why
some viewers might have a problem with it, or think the show goes too
easy on her, or is too melodramatic. That's because I kinda feel like
I "should" too, but I don't. I don't know if it's the power
of context, writing, or acting, but this part has the sheer force of
something on its side. One has to wonder how strong her "spark of
humanity" was: it does seem either convenient or not-coincidental
that she would suggest that "you're going to stop me by telling me
you love me?" Kinda handing Xander the key to do exactly that.
It feels real to me. And I think it's because it's Xander. Forget his
performance. It's who he is. The connection he brings to her whole life.
Nobody else could do this. Willow may have had a great love and passion for
Tara, but Xander is the one who stood by "just Willow" from infancy. The
one who was happy with her and made her happy. I think of Willow being in
costume in Restless - hiding her true self. But Xander is the one she
couldn't possibly hide it from - and still can't now. And the one who
genuinely loves her real self without an ounce of pretense.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Say what you will about Xander as a "best friend," but he seems to
take attempts to kill him remarkably well, as a general rule.
One good thing about Xander's insecurities is that he has no ego, yet is
quite comfortable with that fact. He's not so happy about being a screw-up
all too often, but he's pretty content living for others rather than
himself. (Which, as I think of it, may also explain a little why his
explanation for leaving the altar can be true. But, no, I won't belabor
that.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
But I do think this plays out awkwardly, especially
on the heels of the equally melodramatic but much-fewer-wasted-words
X/W exchange. This makes it hard for me to properly appreciate the
Montage O' Healing And Sunrise.
I still like the montage. All the wounded souls surviving the deluge (with
one sadly left behind). I remember very clearly how I thought this was the
ending. Fade out happy. Sore, but content. At that moment I'd completely
forgotten about Spike. And then the music and words resolve into Spike in
the cave and the real shock ending. I think it's a wonderful transition.

The shock itself... Well, it's not the thrill of Giles wanting to test that
theory. That's immediate tension. This leaves you with more of a slow
building sense of great implications. But it's plenty big - and I think the
closest the series gets to a cliff hanger season ending. (Doesn't quite
reach that - but you can see it not that far away.)
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Finally, the show ends with Spike being restored to what he was. Or
not, since he just got his soul back without any mention of humanity,
and he's never been a souled vampire before. And of course, these
last few episodes have been all faux-clever in the word choice, with
still another deliberate misdirect. I really was expecting his story
to cross paths with the others again.
I don't know what others have said yet, but I imagine someone's mentioned
controversy around this. Some not liking the seeming ham-handed misdirect.
Some dispute about whether Spike knew that he was getting a soul. Some
dispute about whether it makes any sense that he would seek a soul.

I gather from past discussions that a fair number of people really thought
he was getting the chip removed - which might suggest the misdirect wasn't
that ham-handed. But as a misdirect, I tend to think it kind of was at
least heavy handed. The strange use of words by Spike ever since he got on
his motorbike never once rang true to me, nor the notion that such an
extravagant set of trials would be used to remove a silicon chip. But by
the same token, the one thing that the very brief scenes in the last three
episodes did for me was prevent me from thinking about it too much and
getting invested in any particular outcome. I can't say that I expected him
to get his soul. I really didn't know what to expect.

I also am of the opinion that it was only partly a misdirect. He wanted a
soul all along, but it was his new understanding of what the chip had done
to him that drove him to this decision. Yes, realizing that nothing else
could satisfy Buffy was at least an equal motive. But it wasn't just that.
It was also realizing how thoroughly the chip had stolen the vampire from
him. The chip wasn't merely blocking him from being a real vampire. All
the time away from that had sapped his desire to be one. He's pissed off at
the chip - positively obsessing over it - for doing that to him, because he
realizes that getting rid of it won't do him any good. He still won't be a
real vampire. So he has no real choice. He *has* to go for the soul -
something he's never wanted and doesn't really believe is good - because he
can't stay where he is or return to what he was.

This is, I believe, a necessary component of his soul quest. It can't be
built purely out of love. There's too much evil in Spike for that.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
That's part of what I mean
when I talk about the open-ended finale, more so than the end of any
other season (even "Primeval"/"Restless," taken together,
brought us to more of a stopping point). Buffy may have finally
emerged from Hell, but Willow is not exactly Normal Again, Anya still
has to figure out where she wants to be in the world, and Spike clearly
has a lot of story left to tell. I think the explanation for this
feeling is that BTVS always tends to finish off its villain and its
"main plot" at the end of the year, but leave the character arcs in
flux. Well, it's the same approach here, except that the villains
that aren't Willow and Spike have been such a minor part of the S6
story that there's very little "main plot" that's separable
from the character development.
Perfectly fair analysis I think.
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
So...
One-sentence summary: Seems to mostly work, but it's hard to be sure;
my rating is tentative.
AOQ rating: Good
Same for me. While I think the laughing scene and the Xander intervention
are as great as anything in this final run, this episode is probably the
most awkward of the three - especially for the Buffy/Dawn scenes.

I'd like to add that the overall impression of these last three episodes is
an excellent for me. The story of Darth Rosenberg I find thrilling, and I'm
quite impressed that they were able to sustain the energy so well across
three episodes.

See you next season in a bit too. I'm hoping to squeeze in a bunch of AtS
S5 during the interlude. And thanks yet again for prompting the exchange of
ideas about the season in this newsgroup. And while we -uh- certainly
didn't see eye to eye on the wedding (which, of course, you're still totally
off base about ;o)), I've been very impressed with your handling of the
season as a whole. Not just the quality of the analysis, but for - well -
your stability in what is clearly the most controversial season of the
series.

OBS
MBangel10 (Melissa)
2006-09-01 21:06:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
<snip>
Post by One Bit Shy
See you next season in a bit too. I'm hoping to squeeze in a bunch of AtS
S5 during the interlude. And thanks yet again for prompting the exchange of
ideas about the season in this newsgroup. And while we -uh- certainly
didn't see eye to eye on the wedding (which, of course, you're still totally
off base about ;o)), I've been very impressed with your handling of the
season as a whole. Not just the quality of the analysis, but for - well -
your stability in what is clearly the most controversial season of the
series.
OBS
I second that. I really don't have much else to add that's not already
been said but kudos to you AOQ for giving us a really well thought out
and even handed review of season 6.

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on S7.
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-01 22:03:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
Post by One Bit Shy
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
<snip>
Post by One Bit Shy
See you next season in a bit too. I'm hoping to squeeze in a bunch of AtS
S5 during the interlude. And thanks yet again for prompting the exchange of
ideas about the season in this newsgroup. And while we -uh- certainly
didn't see eye to eye on the wedding (which, of course, you're still totally
off base about ;o)), I've been very impressed with your handling of the
season as a whole. Not just the quality of the analysis, but for - well -
your stability in what is clearly the most controversial season of the
series.
OBS
I second that. I really don't have much else to add that's not already
been said but kudos to you AOQ for giving us a really well thought out
and even handed review of season 6.
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on S7.
i wonder what he will think about cousin eve
buffys dearest cousin whom weve never heard of before
who is orphaned over the summer and comes to live with buffy

it turns out the dawn and eve look identical
and they have all kinds of whacky adventures based on identity confusion

or was that too spoilery

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
vague disclaimer
2006-09-02 01:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
I don't personally think that the becoming an adult theme is one of the
stronger or better realized themes of the year, but it is there. And this
is one of the better applications of it. Whatever happens to our characters
after this, it's going to be a lot harder to think of them as teens anymore.
I'm not sure 'becoming an adult' is quite what the theme was. I think it
was more dealing with adult responsibilities, a subtle but important
difference.

V guvax 'orpbzvat na nqhyg' bayl rzretrf va gur irel arkg rcvfbqr jura
Knaqre fgrcf bhg bs uvf pne ybbxvat hapbafpvbanoyl fcvssl, Ohssl unf Zbz
Unve naq Jvyybj vf yrneavat nobhg erfcbafvovyvgl.

Naq ol frnfba raq Ohssl vf qrnyvat jvgu gur qrpvqrqyl tebja-hc ceboyrz
bs ubj gb pneel crbcyr jvgu ure jub ner abg ure orfg sevraqf gung fur
jrag gb uvtu fpubby jvgu, naq jub ner ybbxvat sbe yrnqrefuvc, abg whfg
urebvfz.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
One Bit Shy
2006-09-02 01:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by One Bit Shy
I don't personally think that the becoming an adult theme is one of the
stronger or better realized themes of the year, but it is there. And this
is one of the better applications of it. Whatever happens to our characters
after this, it's going to be a lot harder to think of them as teens anymore.
I'm not sure 'becoming an adult' is quite what the theme was. I think it
was more dealing with adult responsibilities, a subtle but important
difference.
Or adult accountability.

On reflection, I think I'll stick to my description because there's a subtle
difference between becoming an adult and being one.

OBS
mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
2006-09-02 02:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by One Bit Shy
I don't personally think that the becoming an adult theme is one of the
stronger or better realized themes of the year, but it is there. And this
is one of the better applications of it. Whatever happens to our characters
after this, it's going to be a lot harder to think of them as teens anymore.
I'm not sure 'becoming an adult' is quite what the theme was. I think it
was more dealing with adult responsibilities, a subtle but important
difference.
Or adult accountability.
On reflection, I think I'll stick to my description because there's a subtle
difference between becoming an adult and being one.
no fair talking about the newsgroup behind its back

meow arf meow - they are performing horrible experiments in space
major grubert is watching you - beware the bakalite
there can only be one or two - the airtight garage has you neo
vague disclaimer
2006-09-02 01:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
She did ask for help. She pleaded for it.
Actually, she didn't. She tried to palm off responsibility: not quite
the same thing.

Giles gave help freely (including a big wedge of cash), only to conclude
it was, at best, not solving the under-lying problem. Was his solution
right? Probably not, but he had had trauma too and I doubt this left him
the energy to be as subtle as he was in Faith Hope & Trick.

They *both* needed to ask for help.
--
Wikipedia: like Usenet, moderated by trolls
One Bit Shy
2006-09-02 01:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by vague disclaimer
Post by One Bit Shy
She did ask for help. She pleaded for it.
Actually, she didn't. She tried to palm off responsibility: not quite
the same thing.
Giles gave help freely (including a big wedge of cash), only to conclude
it was, at best, not solving the under-lying problem. Was his solution
right? Probably not, but he had had trauma too and I doubt this left him
the energy to be as subtle as he was in Faith Hope & Trick.
They *both* needed to ask for help.
Well, I'm on record saying that I think Giles was no more prepared to just
jump back into the Watcher's game than Buffy was to be The Slayer again.
Buffy's death was closure for him too. I'm not sure what exactly he could
ask help for, but I won't dispute that. (I guess I'll ponder it.)

As far as Buffy not asking for help, I think you're limiting your view to
pre-OMWF. Let me remind you of the Tabula Rasa conversation.

GILES: You have to be strong. I'm, I'm trying to-
BUFFY: (jumps up) Trying to, to what? (angrily) Desert me? Abandon me? Leave
me all alone when I really need somebody?
GILES: (quietly) I don't want to leave-
BUFFY: So don't. Please don't.
She goes to sit beside him.
BUFFY: I can't do this without you.
GILES: You can. That's why I'm going. As long as I stay you'll always turn
to me if there's something comes up that you feel that you can't handle, and
I'll step in because, because ... (pause, sighs) Because I can't bear to see
you suffer.
BUFFY: Me too. Hate suffering. Had about as much of it as I can take.
GILES: Believe me, I'm loathe to cause you more, but this...
Giles pauses. Buffy looks on the verge of tears.
GILES: I've taught you all I can about being a slayer, and your mother
taught you what you needed to know about life. (Buffy looks away, pouting)
You ... you're not gonna trust that until you're forced to stand alone.
BUFFY: But why now? Now that you know where I've been, what I'm going
through?
GILES: Now more than ever. The temptation to give up is gonna be
overwhelming, and I can't let-
BUFFY: So I won't! No giving up. You can be here, and I can still be strong.
Beat. She stares at him anxiously.
GILES: Buffy, I've thought this over ... and over. I believe it's the right
thing to do.
BUFFY: You're wrong

Aside from the pleas, there's also a move in content. "Now that you know
where I've been, what I'm going through?" Buffy is talking about coming
back from heaven. She's talking about her OMWF plea to give her something
to sing about. It's not just about palming off responsibilities. It's
exactly the same reason for her struggle that she refers to now in Grave.

OBS
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 02:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
That pretty much ends their conversation. After that, they move to Willow
and then Willow gets wild again. As an ending, that seems rather
uncomfortable to me, suggesting that Giles may not have a lot to offer Buffy
anymore - that their split earlier in the season isn't any more resolved
than any of the other character issues left kind of hanging at the end of
this episode.
Hmmm.
Post by One Bit Shy
(So, do you think maybe now they really should get together as a couple
finally for real? I mean we *know* Willow's really bi-. <g>)
I know they wouldn't do that, if only because of the nutjob wing of the
analyzing-depiction-of-gay-characters crowd. But I would entirely
approve of more X/W goodness, although not right away of course.
Ther'es nothing quite like falling in love with on'es best friend, and
the show's been ever so slightly mean in mostly denying it to the
viewers except for like three episodes under all the wrong
circumstances,
Post by One Bit Shy
And thanks yet again for prompting the exchange of
ideas about the season in this newsgroup.
Couldn't have done it without everyone else.
Post by One Bit Shy
And while we -uh- certainly
didn't see eye to eye on the wedding (which, of course, you're still totally
off base about ;o)), I've been very impressed with your handling of the
season as a whole. Not just the quality of the analysis, but for - well -
your stability in what is clearly the most controversial season of the
series.
Thanks for the kind words. I try to be level-headed.

-AOQ
One Bit Shy
2006-09-01 22:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
An added thought after reading through the initial responses - which I think
may be the best, most thoughtful, and thought provoking I've seen yet. But
especially, the most diverse. (I'm actually kind of overwhelmed by the
range of perspectives.)

I've always thought of art as a transaction between the object and the
viewer - it's greatness found in that interaction rather than in the object
alone. Which by implication means that it is a much lesser art that leaves
little room for the participation of the viewer - merely directing the
viewer to a pre-ordained spot. When I see here how much this season excites
viewers minds (even negatively) and how diverse those reactions are, it
really confirms for me how special this season is.

OBS
Malsperanza
2006-09-01 22:51:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by One Bit Shy
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
An added thought after reading through the initial responses - which I think
may be the best, most thoughtful, and thought provoking I've seen yet. But
especially, the most diverse. (I'm actually kind of overwhelmed by the
range of perspectives.)
I've always thought of art as a transaction between the object and the
viewer - it's greatness found in that interaction rather than in the object
alone. Which by implication means that it is a much lesser art that leaves
little room for the participation of the viewer - merely directing the
viewer to a pre-ordained spot. When I see here how much this season excites
viewers minds (even negatively) and how diverse those reactions are, it
really confirms for me how special this season is.
This is beautifully put, and feeds directly into my own private
obsession with how art works (or how storytelling works, or both): that
it's really dependent on the degree of the viewer's contribution--what
the viewer brings to the mix. And part of what the viewer brings is a
(greater or lesser) degree of expectation and desire. And part of what
a good work of art does is fail or refuse to fulfil expectations and
desires. Which is what compels us to reread, or rewatch favorite
works--not because we're disappointed in them but because those gaps
between what we get and what we want are always available to be filled
by our own imagination. (This is my biggest problem with fanfic: it
literalizes that desire, and fulfils it too explicitly.)

So with the Spike story as we currently have it (end of s6), there is
room for Newly Souled (or Resouled) Spike to go in any number of
directions--more heroic, less heroic, redeemed, unredeemed, or
partially redeemed; Buffy's Real True Love or Eww, Not. Etc.

As Walt Whitman says in "Song of Myself":

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then . . . . I contradict myself;
I am large . . . . I contain multitudes

No character in BTVS has quite the range of possibilities as Spike at
the end of s6. All the others, however pleasing and fully realized,
have defined characters with fairly clear paths. Spike is the great
Anomaly. Now that he has a soul, and despite the continued presence of
the chip, he has something like free will.

Spike is ready to, er, blossom like a deep-fried onion flower,
unfolding his, um, his layers of petals in any number of ways.

~Mal
Wes <>
2006-09-02 04:40:09 UTC
Permalink
On 31 Aug 2006 22:17:18 -0700, "Arbitrar Of Quality"
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
1) "Bargaining" - Decent
2) "After Life" - Good
3) "Flooded" - Decent
4) "Life Serial" - Good
5) "All The Way" - Good
6) "Once More, With Feeling" - Excellent
7) "Tabula Rasa" - Good
8) "Smashed" - Decent
9) "Wrecked" - Good
10) "Gone" - Decent
11) "Doublemeat Palace" - Decent
12) "Dead Things" - Good
13) "Older And Far Away" - Good
14) "As You Were" - Decent
15) "Hell's Bells" - Weak
16) "Normal Again" - Excellent
17) "Entropy" - Decent
18) "Seeing Red" - Good
19) "Villains" - Good
20) "Two To Go" - Excellent
21) "Grave" - Good]
Thanks to everyone who took part in the Season 6 discussion. It isn't
in danger of becoming one of my favorite seasons but I now have a
better understanding of parts of the story than I did before. So
again, thank you.

Wes
Apteryx
2006-09-02 05:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
BY THE NUMBERS
[Note: "Bargaining" is counted twice]
_Buffy The Vampire Slayer_ Season Six
Bad - 0
Weak - 1
Decent - 8
Good - 10
Excellent - 3
I get
Bad - 0
Weak - 3
Decent - 11
Good - 8
Excellent (or better) - 2

So I like overall it a little less than you. But it does stand out for
me as being the only season that beats the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics,
the only season that is better than the one before it.

Apteryx
buck naked
2006-09-02 06:18:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arbitrar Of Quality
A reminder: Please avoid spoilers for later episodes in these review
threads.
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
(or "I'm above/Over you I'm standing above/Claiming unconditional
love/Above")
Writer: David Fury
Director: James A. Contner
What's been all this talk about Buffy season 6? As all true fans know, the
show ended in Season 5....with buffy making a final heroic sacrifice to save
the world, her friends and her little sister.
Arbitrar Of Quality
2006-09-02 06:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by buck naked
What's been all this talk about Buffy season 6? As all true fans know, the
show ended in Season 5....with buffy making a final heroic sacrifice to save
the world, her friends and her little sister.
The cartoon series was Season Six. And they're doing Season Seven as
Braille novels.

-AOQ
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